Introducing Myself

by StandFirm 151 Replies latest jw friends

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  yknot

  Standfirm,

  yknot: I am neither MS or elder, I was born-in, that's all I'm willing to reveal about myself. Is a quote like this what you mean?

  Well I am good person but I am not a saint so I will take this one moment to be petty and snicker because the only way you have a copy of the ks10 is if you downloaded from a link created by my friends....the same friends who you were a bit harsh-tongued about on topix.......pausing, readying self and snicker, snicker, snickering...... Okay...that is out of my system...... I humbly apologize to Standfirm and offers a virtual (huggles!)

  Awesome-blossom! Unlike Topix, a lot of our posters are born/raised so unlike the wannabees, studies, and converts you get on Topix you will be conversing with people who even though you might disagree on things still have similar life experiences as you.

  Here you will be allowed to disagree with the WTS (umm posting and interacting on this similar websites, maybe on higher education, mediation of Christ for examples so long as you are also willing to take responsibility for those non-WT views like my being 'willfully dismissive' of internet interaction-I alone am accountable for my actions, no excuses) and not automatically be label this or that because as born/raised we know the difference between they hype of 'spiritual paradise' and the reality of human beings having their own mind....... the difference between unity and conformity.

  Eventually you too will admit you are of the 'conscious class' and you will be okay in asserting it when someone gets a bit pushy, where you are in your education of our history is not a journey really open to anyone's criticism....so you tell them to back off and let you take your time.

  Many times it isn't defending or debating as much as exchanging of ideas, experiences and POVs....where we are all still friends even after a brawl so long as a pic of beer is posted and a 'agree to disagree' is suggested

  No.....that aint it (what our 'truth' is)....I think I am putting too much pressure on you though.... so lets try a scenario

  Knock, Knock

  Householder answers and SF says: Hello, my name is SF and I was out today sharing a Psalms 37:10,11 (begins reading , immediately launching into question)

  (for forum conviences : (Psalm 37:10-11) And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.)

  Question : (SF continues) "Do you think we will see this promise come true soon?" (await HH response)

  HH: (eyeballs you because they are bigtime primative baptist) I believe the kingdom message will be fullfilled at the appointed time..

  SF: (Continues) I agree, in fact I have this magazine that discusses 6 different bible prophecies finding fulfillment right now!

  HH interupst you again).... well Mr.SF I believe in the good news, gospel, or truth of the kingdom message.....can you tell me about what you JWs believe of the kingdom message ?

  SF smiles, he is a born, has got this one (if not immediately then because he has Sister Yknot to give him the answer and create a reason to pay a return visit to this cagey old Baptist coot!..... SF clears his voice and tells the man (a) begins to explain the kingdom message (b) that he wants to answer accurately and will return next week....

  Okay sweety... explain to me the kingdom message!

  Huggles!
• 

  still thinking

  Satanus.... Maybe something like this.....
• 

  yknot

  Yall..... give him a chance....

  Let him journey on this path.....he is being better mannered then Bane was when he first began to post (luvs ya Bany-Botz baby!)
• 

  yknot

  Godrulz topical suggestion:

  THe Deity of Christ is a salvific issue.

  And let me guess you think the JWs don't profess that Jesus is divine...(mumbles in a grumpy tone .....'trinitarians)

  (BTW on a sidenote....the disagreement between Arians and Athanasians has raged for over a thousand years and will continue to do so until Christ himself settles the matter.....so be happy in your profession while also being humble to discern that you might be wrong but still have a heart filled with love for Christ......do not seek to divisions...for all that will occur is you standing in one place casting stones,, another in another place and yet more all making up the various denominations that fall under Christianity!)

  Here let me enlighten you about how we perceive the divinity of christ

  *** rsp.426Trinity***youbelieveinthedivinityofChrist?’mightreply: ‘Yes, I certainly do. But perhaps I do not have in mind the same thing that you do when you refer to "the divinity of Christ."’ Thenperhapsadd: (1) ‘Why do I say that? Well, at Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is described as "Mighty God," but only his Father is ever referred to in the Bible as the Almighty God.’ (2) ‘And notice that at John 17:3 Jesus speaks of his Father as "the only true God." So, at most, Jesus is just a reflection of the true God.’ (3) ‘What is required on our part to be pleasing to God? (John 4:23, 24)’ Do You

  *** it-1p.639Divine***

  Then, at Colossians 2:9 the apostle Paul says that in Christ "all the fullness of the divinequality [form of the·o′tes] dwells bodily." Here, again, some translations read "Godhead" or "deity," which Trinitarians interpret to mean that God personally dwells in Christ. (KJ,NE,RS,NAB) However, Liddell and Scott’s Greek-EnglishLexicon defines the·o′tes in basically the same way it does thei·o′tes, as meaning "divinity, divine nature." (P. 792) The Syriac Peshitta and the Latin Vulgate render this word as "divinity." Thus, here too, there is a solid basis for rendering thei·o′tes as referring to quality, not personality

  Huggles!
• 

  sizemik

  'overfeeding a troll. "'

  What happens, when you overfeed a troll? Does it blow up, like mr creasote?

  Ha Ha Ha . . . I'm leaving the restaurant
• 

  godrulz

  The Deity of Christ should not be confused with a New Age, generic divinity of Christ concept. The issue is if He is created or uncreated. Arians were rightly condemned as heretical centuries ago. We do not have to wait until the Second Coming (which is yet future and visible, not 1914 and invisible?!) to resolve this issue. The biblical arguments for the Deity (not divinity) of Christ and the Trinity are there, but the WT distorts verses and arguments beyond belief. Other heresies like Gnosticism, Doceticism, Modalism, etc. were also rightly condemned. Using your logic, we cannot know truth and have to wait for the future to figure it out. The identify of Christ can be known. JWs happen to be wrong about it, like the Jews were. I can read WT canned responses, but know that they are refutable and that their quoting of authorities is problematic and dishonest. Again, a counterfeit Christ and false gospel cannot save anymore than a counterfeit coin is worth anything.

  e.g. As to Is. 9:6, it does not matter whether we called YHWH Holy, Mighty, Almighty, Faithful, Powerful God, etc., He is still God. The same Hebrew phrase is used of YHWH in Is. 10:21 and Jer. (el gibbor). Is. is clear that Jehovah knows no gods before or after him. He did not form any gods and He alone is God (many verses). Claiming two true Gods is polytheism, contrary to biblical, Judeo-Christian monotheism. It is a lame argument to say Jesus is Mighty vs Almighty God when YHWH is also called Mighty God! The same is true about King of kings and Lord of Lords, Alpha and Omega, I AM, Savior, Judge, etc. You do not give angels (Michael) the titles, names, attributes of Deity! He is worshipped equally with the Father (Rev. 4-5), prayed to, honored, etc. The biggest rip off (besides 144,000 limitation rip off) is robbing JWs of who Jesus is. We are to honor the Son, even as (Gk. same way) as we honor the Father. Verses about OT God are applied directly to Jesus in the NT. We can handle the Arian proof texts, but WT must literally retranslate the Bible without original language basis to twist it to sectarian bias on the main verses about the Deity of Christ. This is why the Kingdom Interlinear is a helpful tool to show this travesty.

  You can be right (though you are not) about blood, voting, Christmas, kingdom, Paradise, disfellowshipping, theocracy, 144K, Armageddon, etc., but if you are wrong about whether Jesus is God or creature, it will affect destiny (salvific, unlike the endless Pharisaical additions/conditions of WT). The Russellite history alone should be enough to make one flee this organization. It is a modern cult like Mormons and Christian Science, not a biblical group.

  Perhaps the personality of the Holy Spirit would be a shorter, easier topic to start with?
• 

  yknot

  The Deity of Christ should not be confused with a New Age, generic divinity of Christ concept. The issue is if He is created or uncreated. Arians were rightly condemned as heretical centuries ago

  As an Arian and on behalf of most Arians...

  BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH... (translation godrulz says: my version is better than your version.....I am the judge of what is right and true and you are wrong Yknot, ignorant and misled wrong....)

  To wit I respond....... dude get over yourself, you have an opinion of Christ and we have an opinion of Christ.... we both can list supporting scriptures...... if you really think that is the basis of salvation, well more power to you, just like more power to the Church of Christ people for thinking an adult has to be baptized to be saved ...... it is all 'interpretation' and 'interpretation is just opinion and opinions are like a**holes ....everybody has got one!

  huggles and a reminder that Jesus luvs you!
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  godrulz

  You seem to think that all views are equally true even if contradictory. Spiritual truth can be known through revelation. We can know if the JW, Mormon, Catholic/Evangelical view of Jesus is true or false. Believing my view is not the issue so much as trusting the real Jesus, the only way to eternal life (Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16 vs Jn. 3:36; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12; I Cor. 15:1-4; I Jn. 5:11-13; Rom. 10:9-10; Rom. 1:16; I Cor. 1:18). Truth can be known and error can be exposed. I am either right or wrong (ditto for you). Paul defended and proclaimed truth, warned about false gospels, false Christs, etc. Your beef is with God/Bible, not me. Jesus made claims relating to His Deity and proved it by His resurrection. I believe in His resurrection (I Cor. 15, core gospel truth). Those who argue that it is my opinion or another view like Islam (that denies death/resurrection) has merit are wrong. The resurrection is defensible and salvific. Churches that teach baptismal regeneration of infant baptism are also wrong. The authority is not my opinion, but Scripture exegeted in context.

  I appreciate the freedom from WT some of you have, but one cannot be biblical/Pauline without a higher view of the importance of sound doctrine. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water or swing the pendulum in over reaction for being burned/deceived by a false religion. The truth is out there and the lie can be exposed.
• 

  yknot

  Godrulz...

  Nope you are off target....

  What I did was show you is that the JWs do proclaim Jesus' divinity (just because it isnt how you view it doesn't make it any less true).

  Here's what I am seeing from your posts...... you are trying to preach, nudge, sway or 'reach-out' in your own ministry ......which is all fine and dandy as long as you can maintain respect and give dignity to those who don't agree with your interpretations or beliefs..... HOWEVER, much like Paul found it useful to discern the beliefs and practices of the Athenians....so too is it wise to discern the beliefs of JWs.....to not discern is like speaking Japanese to a person who only understands Czech.....

  Selling trinitarism to JWs is a hard sell ......and if your intent is to woo them from the WTS than this approach is dead on arrival.....the Arian belief is a strong one that not many will part with it even if they become Ex-jws......in fact I believe it was 'Auld Soul' who told me that most Ex-jws are morelikely to become atheist because the indoctrinated issues of pagan origins leads them to research deeply everything so as to not feel susceptable to being snared again.

  No one ever told a JW anything.....JWs have an automatic dismissal response to such approaches. We have the Truth, it us who lead you ......and if you don't know how to work with that mentality then it is best you consider moving on from this area of your ministry and allowing another who is better suited to take your place.

  Beyond that I assure you that Standfirm and I both believe in Jesus' divinity as stated in the Insight book, we believe in the resurrection of Christ, we believes in Jesus..... we are equally certain of our interpretations as you are yours.
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  Farkel

  : Because I found the views of apostates logically deficient, I decided to put my convictions under the hardest test I could think of, which was posting on the above mentioned forum and writing the above mentioned blog. I now am more convinced than ever that Jehovah's Witnesses are God's organization on earth today.

  I'm your huckleberry. Care to explain those "hardest tests" you mentioned?

  I'd bet a Watchtower (worthless bet if I lose) that you won't take my bet, because if you do, I and many others will trash your arguments, using your OWN "publications." It would be like using raw sewage to prove that sewers don't exist (alert to Terry: it's a simile), but I will still use your own sewage to disprove your notion of God, the Bible and common sense.

  I'm your huckleberry. Let's play. I'm more than happy to debate you and trash your notions of "God's organization on earth today."

  Farkel