Introducing Myself

by StandFirm 151 Replies latest jw friends

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    Funny if anyone wrote anything that jws didn't like on their forum they would be banned and yet dubs are allowed to post here, must be nice to have freedom of thought :)

    While GB strongly discourages it's members from even replying to negative posts about wts don't you feel you're disobaying your masters? Isn't disobediants to anointed same as disobeying Jehovah and Jesus? Is sure sounds like it from wt publications.

    As for watchtower teachings explain to us how you can defend 607BCE when there is no shed of evidence for it? Hope you stay here long enough to learn something about your faith.

  • laverite
    laverite

    Welcome, StandFirm! I love this place. It's a great place for all of us to have some interesing chats. I am a gay disassociated JW college professor who has been blessed with a very happy and young family. Between work, JWN and my busy family life, I stay busy!

    I love JWN. I have some great friends on here including DAd, DFd and active JWs (which also includes pioneers, elders, etc.). We've got a lovely bunch of JWs and ex-JWs here. I love my JWN friends.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Welcome.

    Just to be clear, you are not a Jehovah's Witness. Rather, you have set up your own little break away group where, since you seek out apostates to converse with, you feel it acceptable to go against the Governing Body in areas of your choice. Such pretention of being a JW is pointless, as you have put yourself in line for destruction, unless you have decided to reject that part of the GB's teachings as well.

  • satinka
    satinka

    Two questions about integrity...

    1. Are you here counting service time?

    2. Have you told your elders you are visiting an Apostate website? Guessing you haven't...If they were to ask you, what would your answer be?

    satinka

  • yknot
    yknot

    oh....ooopsies!!!

    Many sincere appologies on gender mishaps......

    So are you a MS or Elder?......

    I am a born-in JW you said you were 'raised' ......are you an early raised or late raised JW?

    Can you tell us what era you were brought into the Organization?

    Oy the reasoning book......we really need to retire it seeing how we have had three explanations of the 'generation' since it's publishing! Look what you copy/pasted by accident (giggles sweety just want you to be more vigilant next time-huggles)!

    8) Last days: They believe that we are living now, since 1914, in the last days of this wicked system of things; that some who saw the events of 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world; that lovers of righteousness will survive into a cleansed earth.

    Sorry that book is just a 'pet peeve' of mine........needless to say I don't enjoy the School as much as times past.....

    I want you to try one more time......and remember this might be a question you encounter in field service so demonstrating you have 'accurate knowledge' of our beliefs is of extreme importance in giving a fine witness. (Hint: our 'truth' is our 'gospel' or 'good news' of the Kingdom)......... And when we say we are in the 'truth' or 'have the truth' .....it means this good news of the Kingdom.

  • leapofthefrog
    leapofthefrog

    Hey StandFirm

    "I see this to mean that those who are exposed to apostate arguments who do honest research on them will see them to be false."

    and I agree with you there. The watchtower makes it clear that all arguments against them are false, deceptive, and unconvincing, and that anyone who researches them more closely will be able to see how untrue they are. I wouldn't expect them to say anything different. however this article is not encouraging witnesses to go out and listen to the other side, it's basically saying: "No need to go and read apostate arguments for yourself, it's all a bunch of junk anyways"

    Does Andre strike you as a good example to be followed, or a bad example to be learned from. His foray into apostate-world was not a valuable opportunity to critically examine his beliefs, it was "a bitter experience of being led astray". This bitter experience began because, according to the article, "He felt that having a quick look at an apostate Web site would not be dangerous". And how wrong he was. Andre's curriosity nearly cost him his relationship with god, but he was one of the lucky ones. you're meant to learn from his mistakes, not repeat them.

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    standfirm:

    thanks for your reply,

    regarding the last WT, the problem is, the basic ideas are indeed based on the bible, but the WTS does not stick to the biblical message alone, it goes and adds its own rules and interpretations:

    example:

    occult:

    the scripture was Deuteronomy 18:10-12. In order to undertsand the strong notion against spiritism, one needs to consider the context, something we always should do, right ? Here it talks about the sourrounding nations looking for direction to spiritistic practices. Instead Jehovah told them only to listen to his prophets. This was very important, a nation among hostile people needed clear direction from God in order to survive. Any distraction from other sources would be damaging.

    Well. nobody who believes the bible, would today get involved in spiritism for much the same reason. But what God warned against is practizing spiritism in all its forms. To read, listen to, watch or play something that features uncanny practices is not the same ! Its a usually a product of someones phantasy. If you want to read real demonic stories, just read the bible ! The principle, also from the context for Deuteronomy 18, is clearly not to contact any other spirit sources. Anything else goes beyond what is written, to control people on what they can watch on TV is taking away the freedom of a Christian using his bible (not watchtower) trained conscience.

    disfellowshipping:

    do we have to go there ? ok, the bible does not condone certain wrongs, like 1. Corinthinas 6:9-11 shows, and of course the command to remove the wicked in 1. Cor 5.

    But how should it be done ?

    first of all, Paul wrote to quit mixing company with someone who is a brother and fornicates, extortions etc.

    The WTS combines this with another scripture in John, were, again the context shows, somebody who denies Christ should not even be greeted. John did not make any connection, which would clearly show, that this command would be an addition to Pauls advice, not to mix company. So why does the WTS fabricate any connection ?

    Furthermore, while Paul mentioned a number of sins, which may lead to "removing the wicked", there is no metnion of reasons the WTS fabricates like: taking blood, smoking, celebrating Christmas, taking civil service (until 96) etc...

    Additional the way disfellowshipping ni handled has no basis in the scriputres. Where in the bible is a secret court of three eldes mentioned, who decide that the whole congregation cannot associate with someone anymore, even though they have usually no idea why ?

    Didnt Paul clearly address the problem in his letter, so everybody knew, what was the problem (a guy sleeping with his mother?)

    And when it comes to family members, where in the bible is the difference mentioned between a close relative living in the same household or not ?

    How does the matter apply to anybody who simply disassociates himself, without any wrongdoing ?

    Standfirm there is a difference between being based on the scriputres and being firmly established in the sciptures. Even the witch hunt of the middle ages was based on the bible.

    inbetween

  • leapofthefrog
    leapofthefrog

    This is another good article on the topic

    "It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. (2 Timothy 2:16, 17) Rather, imitate God's response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: "Before him no apostate will come in." - Job 13:16." Watchtower 2004 Feb. 15 p. 28

    Try searching "apostates"on your CD-ROM

  • kimbo
    kimbo

    welcome standfirm

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    I don't know how well you know this site, Standfast, but there are some older threads here that JW apologists were reluctant to post to except to try and derail the threads from the OP.

    You are welcome to dredge up these old threads and take on the challenges they provide. I am sure that as time goes on, these threads will be referred to. If you want to get your teeth into one straight away, just ask. I am sure I can find a couple. Someone needs to parade the flag for the Watchtower on these issues.

    Cheers

    Chris

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