It will come from both for decades to come, contracts are signed sealed and delivered. I hope to be driving an electric car or better in the years to come, but even they use petroleum products.
Ethical Oil
by palmtree67 68 Replies latest members politics
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palmtree67
So, what do you think is behind the protests against Canadian oil, then?
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Berengaria
I believe the issue is the pipeline.
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designs
I think its the pipeline to the Texas Refineries. One of the large Pipe mfg. Companies is about to open a new plant in the Mid West just for this project and the Natural Gas from shale projects. It's the classic battle of Jobs vs the Environment and I think Jobs will win in this economy.
We can hope for Best Practices to minimize the environmental impact.
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Berengaria
I don't know enough about this subject to have an opinion, but here is an article on the protests.
For Protesters, Keystone Pipeline Is Line In Tar Sand
September 1, 2011
Dozens of environmental activists showed up in front of the White House Thursday to get arrested in a peaceful protest against a proposed oil pipeline that would cut across the American Midwest.
Organizers said that over the past 10 days, about 800 people have been handcuffed and bused off to a police station in this ongoing action.
At issue is a proposed pipeline that would connect oil resources in Alberta, Canada, to refineries on the Texas coast. The 1,700-mile long Keystone XL, as it's called, would help our friendly northern neighbor expand development in one of the largest, but dirtiest, sources of oil on the planet. It's bound up in hardened formations called tar sands, and it's not easy to extract.
The State Department has issued an environmental review giving the transnational Keystone pipeline a green light. Some state governors and high-profile climate scientists say building the pipeline would be a mistake.
The Obama administration says it will decide by the end of the year whether to approve this pipeline. And environmental groups are making that decision a test of the administration's resolve to move away from fossil fuels and toward cleaner sources of energy.
A Message To The President
About 100 environmental activists protest the proposed Keystone XL pipeline in front of the White House on Thursday.
And that's where the White House protests come in.
"We're trying to send a message to Barack Obama and America that we got to get off the dirty energy treadmill, because catastrophe is looming if we don't,"said Jim Sconyers, 67, who came in from West Virginia to take part in the protest.
He had $100 in his pocket, which is the fine he expected to pay once he gets arrested at the highly choreographed sit-in. He said tar sands are much worse for the environment than what we pump out of the ground elsewhere.
"Oh, my God, it's tremendously dirtier," said Sconyers. "The sands themselves are, you know, it's sand, listen to the name — it's not just liquid oil that comes flowing out like in a regular oil well." The tar sands get cooked with natural gas burners to liberate the oil, so producing the oil adds emissions to the atmosphere.
Liz Barratt-Brown, from the Natural Resources Defense Council, was also at the protest. She said that emissions from producing oil for the Keystone XL pipeline would be about the same as building seven new coal-fired power plants.
"When you think about bringing a pipeline in that's the equivalent of seven new plants, I actually think that's quite significant," she said.
The tar sands are the second biggest pool of carbon on the earth, and if we burn them, it's essentially game over for the climate.
- Bill McKibben
Sept. 1 2011
A Unique Geologic Treasure
Of course, the Earth's fate doesn't hinge on the emissions equivalent of a few additional coal plants. But activist Bill McKibben, who helped organize this protest, isn't just thinking about what the Keystone XL pipline would deliver. He's concerned that if the pipeline goes ahead, the oil-sands industry would really take off and exploit the vast Canadian deposits.
"This pipeline is a bad idea. The tar sands at the far end of it are the second biggest pool of carbon on the Earth, and if we burn them, if we burn them in a big way, as NASA's Jim Hansen said, it's essentially game over for the climate," he said. Hansen is a NASA climate scientist who was among the protesters arrested this week.
For McKibben, this really is the moment of truth, akin to what Brazil did 15 years ago, when it took serious steps to preserve the Amazon rain forest.
"That was a unique biological treasure," he said. "North America has a unique geological treasure: this tar sands formation. Why don't we have the same kind of responsibility to the world to just keep that oil in the ground?"
Politics in the Pipeline
And there's another reason environmental activists have galvanized around this issue: the politics of the moment.
Enlarge Veronique de Viguerie / Getty Images A truck drives along highway A63 from the Syncrude Canada Ltd refinery in Fort McMurry, Alberta, Canada. The Keystone pipeline would help our friendly northern neighbor expand development in one of the largest, but dirtiest, sources of oil on the planet.
Veronique de Viguerie / Getty Images A truck drives along highway A63 from the Syncrude Canada Ltd refinery in Fort McMurry, Alberta, Canada. The Keystone pipeline would help our friendly northern neighbor expand development in one of the largest, but dirtiest, sources of oil on the planet.
Protester Courtney Hight said she campaigned for Obama in 2008, she worked for him after the election, and she's putting her hope in him now.
"This is an opportunity where the president can make the decision and he doesn't actually have to engage Congress, which has been particularly a road block in a lot of the progress that I think the president has tried to make," said Hight. "This is a chance where he can actually make the decision."
Around 11:30 Thursday morning, the crowd across from the White House looked on as their colleagues started getting arrested and squired onto a waiting bus.
Elevating the Keystone XL pipeline to a symbol carries some risks. Many Americans believe we should be promoting oil development to help keep the price of oil in check. The pipeline oil is too small a fraction of global oil supply to make a significant difference one way or the other, but the symbolism — to drill or not to drill — cuts both ways.
"If you expect the president to kill every development that marginally increases greenhouse gas emissions, and conclude that if he doesn't, then he's not serious about climate change, you'll be sorely disappointed," said Michael Levi of the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. "This is a pragmatic president, and he is not going to decide everything just based on symbolism."
And the fact is, American automobiles are already burning oil from the Canadian tar sands. Other pipelines bring in about a million barrels a day. The Keystone XL would not even double our imports of this dirty but abundant crude.
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/01/140117187/for-protesters-keystone-pipeline-is-line-in-tar-sand
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palmtree67
Beks, it was that article that got to me.
It's so full of misinformation and outright wrong information. To call the oil-sands ( he is so misinformed as to call them "tar-sands") the dirtiest source of oil on the planet, is an untruth. As I have pointed out in my OP.
I love the addition of the picture of Syncrude in winter. Just a few miles from there is the beautiful Athabasca River and the area is extremely forested. We see deer, moose, black bears, foxes, etc almost on a daily basis. Where are the pictures of that?
Bill McKibben would do well to educate himself on the industry before he organises protests.
But then, it's so much easier to protest against Canadian oil than Sudanese oil (.....does anyone remember Darfur? The headlines have stopped, but the killings haven't.....) or Venezuelan oil (....Hello?? Hugo Chavez, anyone???.......) or Nigerian oil, where they burn off their excess natural gas (......Ohhhhhhh, poor Bill......Nigeria actually has the highest carbon footprint for oil produced in the world......) Nigeria also reported 418 oil spills between January and June 2008 - where was Bill then??? Or Russian oil (.....oh, we can't protest their policies, you could end up dead like Litvenenko.........) And I'm not even touching the ethics of Saudi Arabian oil and Iranian oil.
Canada's "to-do" list from Amnesty International is to take a more active role in stopping other countries from abusing human rights.
So how did a country that has been a leader in ethical leadership, suddenly become "criminal" and "unethical" in how it produces its energy?
The ones who are doing the accusing are out of sync with the reality of both the industry and the Canada the world has known for centuries.
So, what is really behind the attacks and protests?
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botchtowersociety
Hear hear Palmtree!
I also hope for technological developments to replace our need for oil.
But right now, oil is indispensable. We have no choice.
Canada is a free, democratic, peaceful people.
I would much rather buy oil fron them, than from the evil oppressive regimes that dominate the oil export trade.
Moreover, Canadians are our neighbors and people like ourselves. I'd much rather see them profit from energy production.
What is good for Canada is almost always good for USA.
Plus, compared with OPEC, Canadian oil is Ethical oil.
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palmtree67
botchtower,
Thank you for understanding where I'm going with this!
Canada's oil-sands represent more than HALF of all publicly accessible oil in the world.
That means it isn't controlled by a government monopoly.
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palmtree67
Here is an example from the book about the importance of educating yourselves before you begin protesting:
In 1998, a Canadian oil company named Talisman bought another Canadian firm called Arakis Energy. Arakis owned a 25% share in a Sudanese oil project. Arakis' partners would now become Talisman's partners - China, Malaysia and Sudan.
After many failed attempts to convince their thuggish partners to respect human rights, Talisman decided to preach by example.
They built 5 medical clinics in the Sudan, 4 water wells and maintained another 28 wells along the pipeline route. They built a 60 bed hospital with 4 doctors and a 24-hour ER. They built 4 schools and subsidized 65,000 acres of farmland. They bought 2000 artificial limbs for amputees, set up entrepreneurial workshops for women and implemented its own Human Rights Monitoring Program - in a fascist country!
Are these normal expenses for an oil company?
Talisman had made life better for the people in Sudan, but it wasn't enough for protesters. The constant criticism and lobbying for Talisman to get out of the Sudan eventuall caused them to sell out to an Indian company in 2002.
In spite of this, Talisman continued paying for its social infrastructure until 2008.
After being hounded out of the Sudan, the last big, socially conscious Western company left. At precisely the same time, Sudan's ethnic cleansing of Darfur began.
Thank you, noisy North American activists!
Of course, we don't know if their prescence restrained Khartoum.......but by driving Talisman out, human rights activists put a new boss in charge - China - one of the worst human rights violators.
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designs
palmtree-
I am seeing where you are coming from, it is difficult in this particular industry to hit all of the bells properly. I was a share holder in Talisman for a long time and then they hit speed bumps on several of their projects. But what they did in Sudan is commendable and who wouldn't trade them for the War Lords anyday.
Veronique de Viguerie / Getty Images