Ethical Oil (page 4)

palmtree67

Thank you, designs.

If Canadian oil companies do things like this, why should the American public worry about the pipeline? Have we not proven our commitment to both the environment and the human factor included in these projects?

designs

Some version of ithe Pipline will go through. We have Lobbyists remember and they hand out money better than a sailor on weekend leave. What I think many worry about are Leaks like Encana had in poorly maintained lines along the Canada/US Border recently.

China owning a big chunk of some of these companies is a worry to us. Did you see the oil spill in China bigger than our Gulf spill, Chinese workers were wading in the Oil Slop chest deep without protective clothes.

Berengaria

Talisman had made life better for the people in Sudan, but it wasn't enough for protesters. The constant criticism and lobbying for Talisman to get out of the Sudan eventuall caused them to sell out to an Indian company in 2002.

In spite of this, Talisman continued paying for its social infrastructure until 2008.

After being hounded out of the Sudan, the last big, socially conscious Western company left. At precisely the same time, Sudan's ethnic cleansing of Darfur began.

Thank you, noisy North American activists!

Palm, if your assessment is correct, and I only say if because I am a virgin on this subject, then you might consider those who stood to lose revenue. It is certainly not above them to use any tactic available. As in the climate change discussions today, the majority of those who deny it have a vested interest.

palmtree67

Beks,

I believe the activist groups need to shut up.

When they call for boycotts, or demand divestment, it only has an effect on companies that care about those things. Human rights activists and environmentalists rely on fundraising to keep them in business.

Donors dont' like to donate to lost causes - campaigning against the Chinese companies or Sudanese won't bring in much revenue. But a campaign against a Western company that actually cares about public pressure......that *looks* like progress.

But the result is that they get things backwards - smackdown the good guys and leave the bad guys be.

Activists may have succeeded in moving Talisman out of the Sudan, but it didn't change a thing on the ground - the earth isn't cleaner, the forests aren't safer and the world isn't using one drop less of gas. And they made things worse. Do you think any other Western companies are going to try and make a go of it in the Sudan?

Getting back to the pipeline, though........none of the other countries that the US buys oil from has environmental standards any where near Canada's. If ForestEthics gets their way and Canada's oilsands are shut down, they will be replaced by other, nastier sources of oil.

And what will you do then?

palmtree67

If Obama imposes a restrictive tax on oil-sands oil, Americans are foolish if they don't ask "Then, what?"

You will get your oil from human rights violating countries, and China will buy our oil ( which will give them access to the most stable, plentiful reserve of oil).

The US will be even more reliant on oil from unstable and unscrupulous partners.

You would basically be handing over your most important strategic energy supply to your global rival.

Berengaria

I believe the activist groups need to shut up.

I'm saying in the case of Talisman, are you sure it wasn't say...........Exxon Mobile who were the culprits?

I will be honest, if Saudi Arabia wanted to run a pipe through the forest behind my yard, I would definately protest. Again, I don't know the in's and out's of this issue, but what little I have heard has focused on the pipeline.

And what will you do then?

I hope that the you in this sentence is not actually me, but some generic "you". I sit here mildly interested in trying to see both sides of this story. I haven't taken to the streets

ballistic

China is doing loads of stuff and claiming that the West can only criticise because we already got to the top ruining everything in our path. It's some kind of excuse to them. Saying we should stop protesting because China does it is not good. We protest because we have an IDEA that things can be better.

palmtree67

I'm saying in the case of Talisman, are you sure it wasn't say...........Exxon Mobile who were the culprits?

From what I've read, it was Lois Wilson and Human Rights Watch that spearheaded the Talisman ouster.

Interestingly, neither the Chinese oil company, nor the Chinese embassy in the US responded to HRW after they took over in the Sudan. Talisman had been in constant contact with them and other groups.

While Talisman was in Sudan, HRW wrote a 580 page report on them, but have done NO report about the Chinese company.

botchtowersociety

Palm Tree is pretty damned smart about this issue. Plus, on top of that, her avatar appears to indicate that she dances Flamenco. I am rather smitten at this point.

palmtree67

ballsy,

I'm not saying stop protesting. I'm saying THINK! before you protest something.

Sometimes, do-gooders don't look past their immediate tactical goal to see the bigger issues, or the real results that could come to pass.

Ethical Oil

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