Like rainbows
It is possible if all conditions are perfect to see a round rainbow.
If evil proves to some there is no Universal Sovereign why is goodness not proof enough there is a U.S.?
Does the Issue of Universal Sovereignty make sense to you as an explanation for evil?
by gubberningbody 233 Replies latest jw friends
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bohm
I would like to point out that IF personal revelation is NOT a valid form of evidence for God's existence, then neither is the "If Gid existed He would/should let Us know".
Let me make the point a different way:
If claims of telepatic communication with unicorns who want worship is not evidence for the existence of unicorns who want worship, then neither is the "if unicorns which wanted worship existed, they would let us know".
the fact people think I am deluded for claiming I am in telepatic communication with a unicorn does not mean they cant wonder why unicorns which want worship does not provide good evidence for their existence!
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Band on the Run
I studied Job extensively when I was very ill, near death. Most scholars believe the prequel and sequel, the narrative settings preexist Judaism. The poetry is beautiful if you have omit those sections. The poem makes no sense to me with the bargaining. So who created the crocodiles? It is not a satisfactory answer to me.
People have been seeking these answers from before Homo Sapiens existed. I doubt if I will ever find a satisfactory answer. To me it is very important to raise the question and see that the answer cannot be comprehended. I was in agonizing pain for a very long time. People would keep telling me it was God's will, just as Job's "righteous" friends told him. I love Job for its raw anger. Never having read it straight through before becoming ill, the story was the very opposite of what I believed. If God thinks new wives and daughters replace existing ones and suffering is a game, is this person God or Satan?
Jung wrote a famous (within certain circles) book on human suffering, The Problem of Job, and concluded that humans were more moral than God.
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N.drew
God wants worship
Is that what you believe believers believe?
Lesson 1. Learn what it means Jehovah's name is Jealous.
The God I know does not want worship. In the valley of shadow I shall not want.
We are in the valley of shadow. I'm sure. I shall not want.
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THE GLADIATOR
...MANY mentally disadvantaged individuals have made the choice to believe that Jesus Christ is their Saviour.
myelaine Are you speaking from experience?
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Twitch
myelaine, Are you speaking from experience?
The Gladiator's wit is as sharp as his sword, it appears...lol
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Twitch
I have no vested interest in how this discussion is going but I would like to point out that IF personal revelation is NOT a valid form of evidence for God's existence, then neither is the "If Gid existed He would/should let Us know".
Why? because God revealing himself personally IS personal revelation and as such, NOT a valid form of evidence.
Not a valid form of evidence to anyone else but that person, I would agree if that's your point.
Which is exactly why there are so many beliefs and religions in the world IMO. People hear and see different things, it's our nature.
It's apparent that god isn't into doubt removing, world encompassing public declarations, otherwise there would be no diversity on the subject. One voice, one belief, one faith for the one god. This is not the case obviously. So it follows that if he does exist, he apparently tells you personally.
Are ALL of those who have lived and are living right about their personal revelation then? Who is right and who is wrong? Does any one belief trump another and if so, why? What makes one personal experience more valid than another? Who judges that?
If in the end, all that matters is how we treat each other, which is a common theme among all religions/beliefs, is that not the ultimate truth?
Skycake!!
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Bungi Bill
This explanation made little sense to me at any time:
- and it made no sense at all after I got myself hopelessly tangled up a few times, while trying to explain it to others!
That was particularly the case if such persons knew something about the bible (and, contrary to WTS propaganda, such persons do exist - mainly because they actually read the bible, not the Watchtower.)
Like so many other things JW, this one, too, is just another Fred Franz fairy story!
Bill.
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MrFreeze
myelaine...
...MANY mentally disadvantaged individuals have made the choice to believe that Jesus Christ is their Saviour. are you at a greater disadvantage than them?
I would say that those who are mentally disadvantaged are more prone to having their minds molded by other people. Is it really them believing in God or is it the influence around them?
Question for you...
Let's look at a hypothetical scenario. Let's say you were raised in a Jonestown type area, in that it is completely secluded from the outside world. Except the people you were raised with, didn't believe in God. They never mentioned God or anything religious. Being raised in an environment that was completely secluded and you had never heard of God, how would you be judged in that test?
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myelaine
dear MrFreeze...
you said:" I would say that those who are mentally disadvantaged are more prone to having their minds molded by other people. Is it really them believing in God or is it the influence around them?"...my answer would be: depending on the individual and their handicap they can be trusting a caregiver and honestly believeing in God or they can be ones that aren't held responsible for their choices or actions at all because of a significant barrier to "emotional" freedom.
the bible says and I believe and have said recently that God would be merciful to people like that...based on His standard, which is Truth. ie. if you have never heard about God and you are an evil person...you would be judged on the evil you do/think.(you are a law unto yourself)
having Jesus Christ as your Saviour doesn't preclude you from judgement AT ALL...all believers will stand before the judgement seat(2 cor 5:10) knowing this we are admonished and helped to present ourselves acceptable to a Holy God.(romans 12:1-2)
love michelle