An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff 1495 Replies latest jw experiences

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  botchtowersociety

  The question still stands, James. How do you know how such a being should act when you are none of these things yourself?

  If two men see a robbery in progress, and they vary among themselves in knowledge about what is taking place, it is reasonable to surmise that they will act differently. Let's assume a variance in knowledge between the two. The first man might know that he can easily wrestle the armed robber to the ground and defuse the threat. The second might know the same, but he also knows that the robber has a bomb belt and would choose to self detonate if he is physically restrained. The first man would take action, and the second would not.

  You cannot even judge correctly how another being should act in a given set of circumstances, since you do not know what they might know. You might think they should have done X, when they did Y. However, they may know something (or not know) that you do not.

  So what of the case of a being with all knowledge?
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Thank you Tammy for being as understanding as always. You love because it is in your nature to love and loving the way you do is a Christian virtue.

  This is a treacherous and dangerous world and we have fragile hearts, so to me there is such a thing as loving too much.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  AK - Jeff – I realize that you are not really angry with God but frustrated that people can love the concept of an all powerful being that does nothing to alleviate suffering and I can sympathise with that.

  If such a being did exist and did act, where would he, she, it draw the line? Stopping all serious car crashes. No baby or mother ever dying during child birth. No disease, illness or even pain. No war or starvation. Perhaps he would stop people smoking, drinking or becoming obese and dying as a result. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that earth will one day be such a place but bought at the cost of God destroying most of humanity to make way for a new world, then killing anyone who gets bored and breaks a rule. Others believe that the reward for being a loving person in this life will result in a heavenly reward.

  For me it’s back to the drawing board without any preconceived notions based on the God of the bible. Other spiritual disciplines have a very different concept of why being a living creature on earth involves suffering. I have yet to find a philosophy that is convincing. But from the safety of my warm comfortable well stocked home I shall enjoy many more hours exploring the dilemma.
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  cantleave

  N.Drew asked - "how do you know God is doing nothing?"

  Can respond with a question " if your government was doing as much as God is in dealing with the big issues of the day, Would you vote them back in?
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  james_woods

  Let's assume a variance in knowledge between the two. The first man might know that he can easily wrestle the armed robber to the ground and defuse the threat. The second might know the same, but he also knows that the robber has a bomb belt and would choose to self detonate if he is physically restrained. The first man would take action, and the second would not.

  A smart-ass would say that God should not be afraid of a bomb-belt. Which, I guess, brings us back to your point that the question really cannot be answered.
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  jay88

  How would you know how an omniscient, omnipotent, God should act?

  .........................

  Then "god" and the idea of "god" should be questioned, as well

  PSOC
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  PSacramento

  Then "god" and the idea of "god" should be questioned, as well

  Quite correct, the idea of God should be questioned and we do question it.

  But not liking the answer doesn't = god not existing.

  If one doesn't believe in the existence of God then there is nothing to discuss, the world is the way it is because that is how it is.

  If one does believ ein God then one must reconcile THEIR belief in God with HOW the world IS.

  If a person can do that, then they can do that and whether some one agrees with them or not, doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.

  I may disgaree with the atheist view of why god doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean God DOES exists, anymore than an atheist disagreeing with me on why god DOES exist means that god DOESN'T.
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  jay88

  You preaching to the choir, Sac,.......Sooooo

  How do we consider(look at things) without being presumptuous, as to our existence and why things are the way they are?

  PSOC
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  PSacramento

  How do we begin to consider(look at things) without becoming presumptuous, as to our existence and why things are the way they are?

  First we admit that itis virtually impossible to go in without preconceived ideas but that we can be open to the fact that we do NOT know for sure one way or another.

  Accepting that view, we must also understand that IF God does exist ( and by God I mean a being of power beyond our understanding and NOT subject to the laws of the universe as we knwo them NOW) that God can ONLY be understood by US at OUR level and that does NOT mean that we are correct in God being "that way" but that we simply can ONLY u nderstand God in THAT way.

  We must be open NOT to the fact that God has plans beyond our comprehenssion but that we do NOT understand what those Plans maybe.

  Remeber the Star Trek series and the all to crucial "prime directive"?
• 

  jay88

  Accepting that view, we must also understand that IF God does exist ( and by God I mean a being of power beyond our understanding and NOT subject to the laws of the universe as we knwo them NOW) that God can ONLY be understood by US at OUR level and that does NOT mean that we are correct in God being "that way" but that we simply can ONLY u nderstand God in THAT way

  ............

  I presume that you are being presumptous!

  PSOC