Do you hate God (page 14)

designs

facts-

Thanks, I thought I was explaining Green to a blind person...

factfinder

Wow! this is all too much for me to read-its a strain on my eyes!

This is clearly a discussion between Tammy and Shelby (peace to you both) and Jonathan (godrulz?).

But back to the OP-

I don't always hate God. I am dissapointed and disalusioned, however. To find out that the promised paradise earth is just a myth, makes everything else in the Bible seem trivial. And the unfairness of life makes it seem god may not exist, at least not as we believe him to be.

factfinder

designs-

you are welcome!

N.drew

A peaceful Earth is not a myth, it is a possibility.

tec

Factfinder,

Peace to you!

I understand what you are saying. (and I think I said so to Desings earlier) But of course Christ has everything to do with my faith, since my faith is in Him. The relationship between Israel and God, however, is between Israel and God. I don't get to judge it. I do get to share my faith and my understanding, and what others do with that is completely up to them. I would be more than happy to discuss all of this from the Jewish perspective, and I have with Designs (and learned things from that discussion that I did not understand before!).

To be fair, though, there are Jewish people who have faith in Christ. The disciples of the first generation were Jewish. There are also Messainic Jews who have faith in Christ now.

To also be fair, this particular discussion doesn't really take the perspective of a Hindu, or a Muslim (well, a little, as per Shelby's post), or a Buddhist either. But we speak according to what is inside us; what we know. Or hope. Or love.

Again, peace and respect to you both,

Tammy

factfinder

Tammy-

Thank you! Peace to you too!

Yes, Jesus is very important in your faith-I understand that! And when I was a witness he was very important to me too, as a matter of fact, whenever I do pray- which is rare nowadays, I include "in Jesus' name I pray". My dissapointment in finding out the TATT has made me lose faith altogether. I know Jesus is the Messiah of the Bible and that he died for our sins according to the Bible.

I was just trying to mention that, from the viewpoint of a person who believes in Judaism, Jesus and what the NT says, are inconsequential.

I should mention too, that in Judaism, Jews for Jesus and messianic Jews are considered to be "Christians" and not Jews.

Yes, the first century followers of Jesus, all of his disciples up until 36 CE, were Jews. (But the Jewish RELIGION is much different than the Christian one.)

Yes, the relationship between Israel and god is between them only, just as is true of any of us individually, regardless of what country we live in.

There is nothing wrong, in my opinion, of your sharing your faith and view with others, as witnesses we were commanded to do so.

I find Jonathan's , I don't know, is "attitude" the right word? His view of Jews or attitude towards them as....judgemental, anti-semetic-is that too strong a word? But anyway- he reminds me too much of godrulz. None of my relatives would pay heed to any of what he is saying.

I have many conflicted feelings. And I don't know if my beliefs or lack of them, will ever become reconciled. But your posts are interesting.

Thanks for sharing them!

And Shelby- Peace to you too!

And Jonathan-perhaps you and I misunderstand each other?

stillin

Eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions God's infinite love. -Bill Hicks, comedian and social critic (1961-1994)

AGuest

you are not considering the Jewish perspective of all of this! What the NT teaches has little to no importance to Jewish people.

Forgive me, dear FF (peace to you!) and I do NOT mean to contend... but I'm not sure why you (and dear designs - peace to you, as well!) assume this on behalf "Jewish people." Not all Jews ascribe to Judaism... and not all who ascribe to Judaism are Jews (by blood). Not all Jews reject Christ, the Bible, or the NT. There are Messianic Jews, Jews for Jesus, Christian Jews, Nazarenes, Syrian-Malabar Christians ("St. Thomas Christians")... and more. Thus, there are differing "Jewish" perspectives... both within Judaism and outside of it... and to say that what the NT teaches "has little to no importance to Jewish people," is inaccurate. To those Jews who adhere to Judaism, perhaps... but these do not constitute the Jewish people alone.

The NT, therefore, is of GREAT importance to some... even many... Jewish people. Not that I think it should be, though.

This issue here, though, wasn't/isn't ABOUT Jews... at least, not from MY perspective/comments. It was with regard to what Paul wrote to the Romans regarding the salvation of the ISRAEL... which, for some reason, folks keep thinking means only the JEWS. Which is MY point: Israel isn't constituted by ONE (okay, two, if you count Benjamin) tribe(s): there are... 12. So, even if the NT isn't important to [the] Jews at ALL... they alone do not make up Israel. Since, for the most part, Judaic Jews don't RECOGNIZE those of the other tribes... it is highly likely that such ARE... having been scattered "among the nations"... practicers of the RELIGIONS of the nations. Islam as well as Christianity.

In that light, I referred back to ALL of the seed of Abraham: Ishmael (from whom modern Muslims religiously descended) AND Isaac (from whom Jews AND Christians religiously descend). My understanding is that ALL of Israel (Jews AND non-Jewish Israelites) will be saved... as well all of Ishmael. The thing these have in common is through WHOM they are all saved.

Doesn't matter to ME if a Judaic Jew doesn't believe in/accept/acknowledge/recognize Christ as "Messiah." I can't save a single one of them. I can't save myself. But I CAN share the truth... as I receive it from the Holy One OF Israel... of ALL of Israel and not just the Jews... JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Whether any of such ones hear... or refrain.

So, please, dear FF... do not consider me as, for example, attempting to preach to Jews, Judaic or otherwise. My task is not as to those who don't believe; mine is toward those who SAY they believe... but act in opposition to that: those SAY they have faith... but who WALK by sight... versus by that faith. It does not matter to ME whether they are Jew, Greek, slave, freeman, male, female, Judaic, "christian", Muslim... or whatever. If they are Abraham's seed... either by flesh OR by faith... I am their servant.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ... and servant to the Household of God, Israel... wherever... and in whomever... she may be... and those who go with,

SA, who wonders "Jon Dough is Godrulz"?? and thinks "That would explain some things... but let's not jump to conclusions..."

factfinder

Shelby- feel better soon! (You mentioned you have a bad cold.)

factfinder

Stillin- LOL!!!!!

Shelby-

Thanks for your post! when I mention what Jewish people believe the view I am taking is those of my family, and relatives ( Jews by birth) and also- I was given a card by a Hasidic Jewish girl a while back that led me to some Jewish websites, so I decided to look into Judaism more. I went to

wwwwhatjewsbelieve.com and wwwbeingjewish.com

I was surprised by some of what I found, either i had forgotten certain things that I had been taught in Temple as a child, or just was not taught certain things. But I discovered things that made sense and.....

did not make sense to me. so after studying such information I came to the conclusion that the decision I made when I was 15 (before I met the witnesses) was the right one. Judaism is not the religion for me. But I don't think any religion is. I never really thought of Jehovah's witnesses as a RELIGION, such as Judaism, Catholicism, Protestinism, etc are- I thought they were God's organization. After finding out the TATT, and going through that shock, I just had no interest in anything religious any more and as the years have gone by I began to doubt God is real. Or, that the God the religions teach, is real. My Dad believed there may be something out there that made us, not a person, an unknown entity, and at times I find myself feeling as he did.

As I mentioned to Tammy, Ones such as Jews For Jesus (who my relatives thought witnesses were) and Messianic Jews (Who I spoke with before I became a witness, and then again after getting baptized) are NOT considered Jews from a RELIGIOUS JEWISH viewpoint. Well, not according to rabbis anyway!!!

To me, a Jew is a person who is born as such, by birth ( my family) or is someone who formally converts to Judaism, and then is one by religion.

I was one by birth and by religion, and then by birth only!!!!

Anyway- as to the 12 tribes, Judaism does not consider any of them to be 'lost". ( According to my parents, we are decended from the tribe of Levi, and my Mom had uncles who were Cohens, decended from Aaron- not that it really matters, but just a bit of trivia !!!! Lol!!)

Peace to you too Shelby!

Do you hate God

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