Quite a bit to respond to, dear JD (again, peace to you!), but if you will bear with me, perhaps we can get through it all. I would like to start with something you posted to dear tec (peace, my sister!), though, if I might:
But Tammy, you left out where the Bible says Jesus "opened their minds to understand the Scriptures."
Actually, this is EXACTLY what dear tec and I have been trying to share with you: they didn't GET the scriptures. And they had them and READ them. It wasn't until Christ... THE HOLY SPIRIT (2 Corinthians 3:17)... OPENED THEIR MINDS... that they were even ABLE to understand the scriptures. Now, you and I are certainly no better than they are, are we? How, then, do you and I think WE can grasp their meaning... unless/until HE openes OUR minds TO understand them? Dear one, we can read... and read... and read... all the day long. And we can listen to others opine, orate, comment, and/or speculate on them. No matter. ALL... are walking by SIGHT... as to what they SEE... with their EYES: letters "in black and white." But... the eyes can DECEIVE you, can they not? How many times have you read a scripture/verse and believed it said one thing, only to be shown later that it says something else entirely? Isn't that why some believe the Bible to BE "God's Word"... because it SEEMS to be "alive"... because our understanding/vision of what it SAYS... changes???
I don't now what religion you claim to belong to,
I don't claim to be of ANY religion, dear one. My Lord condemned religion when he condemned the works and hypocrisy of the priests, scribes, and Pharisees of the temple at Jerusalem. He REPLACED that... worship by sight... with worship IN spirit THROUGH the truth (him).
by mainstream Christianity teaches that your view is incorrect,
And you say that to say what? That I should accept and follow mainstream "Christianity?" Not on your life. Isn't that what got Israel in trouble? Following the mainstream? Heck, it was the mainstream that called for the Lord YOU claim to follow to be killed. Sorry, but I walked that "broad and spacious" road for the last time. Now, I prefer to go in through the narrow "gate" that is Christ.
and has for two thousand years.
Ummmm... the Jewish "form" of worship condemned by Christ was around a LOT longer than that. So what? It could be what the "many" follow for 10,000 years. Doesn't make it right...
Reference to "the entire seed" does not mean every Jewish Israelite or the entire nation,
Sure it does. That IS the seed [of Abraham], dear one. And guess what? Okay, you might have to sit down for this but... IT INCLUDES ISHMAEL, TOO!
even if they reject Christianity in the future, even if they deny Christ.
No, it does. Hence... mercy.
Paul makes this abundantly clear.
Not based on what you've shared, thus far, he hasn't. And if he "made" it prior to his letter to the Romans (which is most of his writings), then you miss the point OF the letter to the Romans: Paul had to change his position on a LOT of things, including judging (which he tried to teach earlier, particularly to the Corinthians), and did so in that letter.
You need to read other verses to place this in context and understand what it means.
Cite them, dear one, please, lest you be "guilty" of the very thing you accused me of... and thus, a hypocrite...
Also, you fail to quote those verses that prove you wrong. Paul explains that when Israel is grafted back in it is because of their rejection of unbelief, in other words, their eventual belief, in Christ.
I did not leave that out, not at all. Unlike you, who teaches that only SOME of Israel will accept Christ... I have been told that, pursuant to the prophecy by Jeremiah, ALL of Israel WILL accept Christ. Eventually. ALL of them WILL say, at some point: "Blessed IS he that comes in the name of JAH." They WILL... because JAH will PUT His law in their hearts. You, though, missed this truth.
They were rejected because of their unbelief,
Yes...
but those who believe will be saved based on their conversion, not because they are Jews by nature or are under the Old Covenant.
You err. Those who believe will be saved, yes... and they will ALL believe. BECAUSE they are Jews, by nature... and as such, Abraham's seed. And so to fulfill HIS promise to Abraham, et al., God will PUT His law IN them... thus CAUSING a "national" conversion.
A remnant of Israel will be saved, not the entire nation, and only under the Christian New Covenant. I discuss the New Covenant in great detail here: http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#A
YOU discuss it. Okay. Sorry, but since I've yet to see/hear you state the AUTHORITY by which you "discuss", even opine, on these matters... I have to ask what that is supposed to mean to ME? I've not seen you give the GLORY of what you claim to know to God... Christ... the Holy Spirit... holy spirit... nothing. All you offer is what YOU believe/think/opine/discuss. What makes YOU any different, then, than all of the OTHER false christs out there? Nothing, IMHO...
Also, the "root" Paul refers to does not refer to all Israelites of all time. Granted, the root is holy, but it refers to the patriarchs.
The "root"... dear one... is Christ. HE is the "Root of Jesse," the "True Vine," "Sprout!". I was referring to him because, as HE stated, "Before ABRAHAM... I was/have been."
And while the remnant might be entitled to special providence in the future which remains a mystery to us, it applies only to the remnant.
You obviously didn't read the entire chapter. There was a remnant saved over during the first century, yes (Romans 11:5).
"Israel remains holy in the eyes of God and stands witness to the faith described in the Old Testament because of the firstfruits (or the first piece baked) (16), that is, the converted remnant, and the root that is holy, that is, the patriachs (16), NAB 11:16-24 Notes. According to Paul, "full inclusion" does not mean all natural Jews, but only some of them.
First, we are not talking about natural Jews. JEWS... are only one-twelfth of Israel. Jacob (Israel) had 12 sons... not just the two (Judah and Benjamin) who makes up the "Jews". Second, the patriarchs... were NOT Jews. They were HEBREWS... from which the JEWS hail. A "Jew" is from the tribe(s) of Judah (and Benjamin, who attached themselves TO Judah). Thus, one from, say, "Simeon"... is NOT a Jew. One from Zebulun... is NOT a Jew. One from Levi... is NOT a Jew (although some also attached to Judah for purposes of serving in the priesthood). One from Issachar... is NOT a Jew.
Third, the patriarchs are NOT the "root." Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, is that root. THEY, the patriarchs, came from HIM.
Fourth, there are MANY references to "firstfruits"... and one has to use the term in the RIGHT context. For example, Christ... is called "the firstfruits" (1 Corinthians 15:20, 23; Romans 11:16). As is Israel, as a NATION (James 1:1, 18; Revelation 7:4-8; 14:4). As are households (1 Corinthians 16:15). As is holy spirit (Romans 8:23). The JEWS, however, are only "firstfruits" in that they are the first TRIBE, from among ISRAEL... to be called (Acts 1:8).
Thus, it was NOT just the Jews who rejected Christ, however; it was ISRAEL... AS A NATION. Thus, ALL 12 TRIBES.
And that is what Paul is referring to when he writes the words at Romans 9:3-5: ISRAEL... not just the "Jews."
"Romans 11:1 ("... has God rejected his people? Of course not) "... is to be regarded as conveying the sense of an objection.
Is it?
Paul, in the previous chapters, had declared the doctrine that all the Jews were to be rejected. To this a Jew might naturally reply, Is it to be believed, that God would cast off his people whom he had once chosen; to whom pertained the adoption, and the promises, and the covenant, and the numerous blessings conferred on a favorite people? It was natural for a Jew to make such objections. And it was important for the apostle to show that his doctrine was consistent with all the promises which God had made to his people. The objection, as will be seen by the answer which Paul makes, is formed on the supposition that God had rejected "all his people," or "cast them off entirely." This objection he answers by showing,
What, PAUL made that declaration... that ALL Jews were to be rejected? You want us to believe that in the SAME letter Paul says all Jews were to be rejected... then later, because the Jews objected... stated... IN THE SAME LETTER... that all Jews would NOT be? You forget that it's a letter, first addressing the "holy ones"... which is NOT only Jews, but ISRAEL... and then addressing the people of the nations. One letter, though. So, it's not like Paul wrote something... to which the Jews objected (before he FINISHED the letter)... and then corrected... IN THE SAME LETTER... without deleting the error.
You also forget something else important: that Chapter 11 wasn't even addressing the Jews: Paul was addressing the non-Jewish Israelites as well as the non-Israelite NATIONS (Romans 11:13).
(1) That God had saved him, a Jew, and therefore that he could not mean that God had east off all Jews."I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin." Romans 11:1
Yes. Which makes your assertion as to the first part (him saying that God had rejected ALL of Israel) absurd.
(2) That now, as in former times of great declension, God had reserved a remnant. Romans 11:2-5;
The now... was the present time, dear one... and not the "end." And there WAS remnant, so that, starting with THESE... the word could go out to ALL of Israel.
"2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
"... at the PRESENT time"... the days of Paul, yes. Again, so that the word could go OUT from these... to the REST...
(3) That it accorded with the Scriptures that a part should be hardened. Romans 11:6-10;
"6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
A PART should be hardened. Not ALL were, though... right? A remnant was NOT hardened. What, though, becomes of the "part" that WAS hardened? I will address this in a sec...
7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did,
but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written: “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear, to this very day.”[a]
Did you notice... GOD "gave" them this condition? WHY? "To incite them... to JEALOUSY." Why DO that, if they're gonna die anyway? Was it not to turn their hearts BACK? But if they don't SEE these (the nations) receiving the "reward"... how will they BE jealous? It isn't until the kingdom is ESTABLISHED... and Israel SEES what they've almost LOST... that they SAY, "Bless IS he that comes in the name of JAH!" And at THAT point... they, all of them... are taken in. To FULFILL the promise to the patriarchs! THIS... is what SOFTENS the hearts of those whose hearts have been "hardened." And it is THEN... that God can and WILL write HIS law ON their [softened] hearts.
9 And David says: “May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.”[b] "
And this has occurred... and IS occurring for them. But... it will not occur FOREVER...
(4) That the design of the rejection was not final, but was to admit the Gentiles to the privileges of Christianity. (Emph. mine)
Romans 11:11-24; "
Ummm... that's what we've been saying, dear JD...
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
Again, "how much GREATER riches... will their FULL inclusion bring!" For some reason, the reality of that statement isn't sinking in for you...
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry
14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.
15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
So, if the rejection of SOME (because Paul speaks of these saving "some") brought reconcilation to the world, the acceptance of THESE will bring... what?
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
They were broken off, yes, due to their unbelief (which GOD caused to come upon them, due to the lack of FAITH)... SO THAT THE NATIONS COULD BE GRAFTED IN.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you,
provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist
in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of
an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much
more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! "
If they do PERSIST in unbelief! Yet, the PROPHECY is that they WON'T so persist... because JUST like He gave them a spirit of SLEEP... once the full number of the nations ARE in... GOD... will wake them up! And they will be JEALOUS... because what was PROMISED them... what they were hoping and WAITING for... will have been given to OTHERS. THEN, they WILL say, "Blessed is he that comes in the name of JAH" (I mean, what else CAN they say??)... and THEN, they TOO... will be taken in. In this way... ALL Israel IS saved.
(5) That the Jews should yet return to God, and be reinstated in his favor: so that it could not be
objected that God had finally and totally cast off his people, or that he had violated his promises.
What you don't see, dear one... and quite sadly... that YOU are among the very ones that Paul was addressing when he addressed the "nations," here. YOU are "exulting" over the original branches and having "lofty" ideas here. YOU don't truly "get" who and what Israel IS. Yes, they are currently shut up in disobedience, but it is so that others may come in. Rather than maligning them... YOU should have pity, compassion, and empathy for them. Because had they remained FAITHFUL... YOU might not be "where" [you believe] YOU are. There is, therefore, a certain amount of GRATITUDE to be owed them, versus disdain. Because it is only due to THEIR "stumbling" that YOU [may] have been called to "walk." Christ stated, however, that to the extent one does good to the LEAST of his brothers... which would certainly include Jews... they did it to him. Yes, he also stated that "those who do the will of [his] father are his brothers and sisters," but since neither Abraham's OR Judah's blood... or, at times, holy spirit, the Blood of God... is VISIBLE, none of know who truly IS a brother of Christ... by means of flesh OR spirit.
Rather than "condemning" Jews... or ASSUMING them outside the kindgom for a lack of belief, should WE not be PRAYING for them... because, again, it was THEIR error that brought blessings to some of "us"??
At the same time, however, the doctrine which Paul had maintained was true, that God had taken away their exclusive and special privileges, and had rejected a large part of the nation."
Temporarily, yes. Absolutely, I agree. For all time? No. He WILL restore her... and "she" includes Abraham's seed. Who WILL number "as the sands of the sea."
See Barnes Notes on the Bible
Given what you've shared here, I think I'll pass this time (I actually have a copy and used to refer to it)... because I cannot fathom that, if this was YOUR source, I will learn anything of additional value. You have done nothing more than what many do and that is to take someone else's opinings, speculations, interpretations, etc., and made them yours. Rather than going to Christ, the Holy Spirit, and asking for the TRUTH. I have NO reason to believe that "Barnes" received any more direction from that Spirit than you have.
http://www.144000.110mb.com/
Again, I'll pass. I have looked at your link before. Nothing there for me, sorry.
Again, peace to you... and may you be GIVEN ears... if you TRULY wish them... so as to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"
Because I don't get that you've responded to that call... yet.
YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel... and those who go with... and a slave of Christ,
SA
