Since when was it not a topic for atheists? I missed that bit. I also did contribute by fixing all the logic up in one post. :p
Is the Holy Spirit God Himself or a force like in Star Wars?
by I_love_Jeff 224 Replies latest jw friends
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poopsiecakes
This is a complex discussion, you are welcome to join in if you have anything to add. This topic is not for atheists or those who don't believe in the God of the Bible.
Have you actually read the title of the thread?? -
AGuest
Thanks for the clarification, I did not know this.
You are quite welcome, dear TS (the greatest of love and peace to you!). Glad to have been of [some] service - LOL!
Aeons - I meant millions, perhaps billions of years ago, certainly before the time of our physical creation.
Yes, and that is accurate (which might stick in the craw of some "young creationists", but it is the truth. The thing that neither they nor science has quite figured out, though, is the "speed"... of TIME. Perhaps our Lord will allow me to post on that one day...). I have read of aeons, though, in the apocryphal writings and so thought maybe you had, as well. That was the point of my reference there.
I am not familiar with what you said about God's free wife - are you referring to Sarah as a spirit being, that is Jerusalem Above? That kind of complicates the issue if you don't mind me saying so.
I don't mind and I totally understand. I will explain:
Some of the events recorded in the Bible have a previous or subsequent fulfillment. For example, the situation with Joseph and Pharaoh pre-depicts the position of Christ, the Holy One of Israel (and so "Joseph") and JAH, the MOST Holy One of Israel (and so "Pharaoh"): second in command, over ALL of Pharaoh's belongings and everything in the kingdom... except Pharaoh himself.
In the same light, the situation with Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Ishmael, and Isaac pre-depict the situation with JAH, "the Woman" of Genesis 3 and Revelation 12 ("Sarah/Jerusalem Above"), the Earth ("Hagar"), sons of the FLESH/fleshly body ("Ishmael")... and the sons of the SPIRIT/promise.("Isaac").
Because he showed himself to be God's friend, Abraham was "promised" a child by his (free) wife, Sarah, who, for most of her life, was barren. This depicts the "promise" that the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, had with the "Woman", Jerusalem Above... the SPIRIT realm... to produce a son, as well. It is what is spoken of at Revelation 12:1-6... and that "son" is the Christ. The DIFFERENCE is that, unlike Sarah, Abraham's wife, THIS "woman"... will have more than ONE child: she will have MANY - Isaiah 54:1-8. She is "Jerusalem Above"... the "mother" of those born IN THE SPIRIT... by means of HOLY SPIRIT... and the promise to HER is represented by the NEW Covenant. This is because, like Sarah, Abraham's wife, SHE (Jerusalem Above) is FREE. Therefore, the covenant with HER children is so as to make THEM free, as well! Galatians 4:22-26. Free from WHAT? Every thing to do with the PHYSICAL body... including death! Sarah was Abraham's free wife, and so Isaac is the true heir. This is why "Israel" was God's chosen people - because of Abraham and the child he had by his free wife, Sarah. Israel are the descendants of Isaac.
In the MEANTIME, while waiting for Sarah to have a child, Abraham was given a son by his "slave" wife, Hagar. This was Ishmael, who, although born FIRST, was NOT the rightful heir. Because his mother was not the true wife, but a concubine given to him to produce a son. This depicts the child that the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, made with the "woman", the earth... the PHYSICAL realm... so as to produce another son. It is what is spoken of at Genesis 2:7... and THAT son... was Adham. THIS "woman", the earth... is the mother of those born in the manner of the FLESH, through women of flesh... versus by means of holy spirit... and the result of this is the OLD Covenant. This is because, like Hagar, Abraham's concubine, she (the earth/physical realm) is NOT free. Therefore, the covenant with HER children binds and enslaves THEM! Galatians 4:22-26. To what? Everything to do with the physical body... including death! Hagar was Abraham's SLAVE "wife", and so HER son, Ishmael, could never be the true heir. And so, like Ishamel... who grew jealous of Isaac... these sons "persecute Isaac"... the sons of the TRUE wife. In the same way, those sons of the FLESH persecute the sons of the SPIRIT.
This is because, like their forefather, Adham, the sons of the FLESH have CHOSEN another "father": the Adversary, Belial, who you know as "Satan" and "Devil." They do this because of what HE (Satan) promises them NOW... (which is why Adham sold HIS seed out - for the promise of eating and being "like" God... knowing good (life) AND bad (death)... NOW). They want what he offered our Lord... which our Lord COULD have taken and experienced NOW... but rejected... for the hope he had of what was to COME.
In contrast, like THEIR forefather, CHRIST... the sons of the SPIRIT... remain faithful and loyal to the Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. They REJECT the promises held out to them NOW... for the HOPE they have of what is to COME.
More verses/scripture to help you understand this might be Romans 9:6-9; Galatian 4:27-31; Matthew 4:1-11; Genesis 3:1-7; 18:9-15; and 21:1-21; however, there are MANY more, way too many to post here. In fact, these issues/dramas is what ALL that is TRUE in the Bible is entirely ABOUT: the two different sons of God (free/slave), their mothers (Sarah/Jerusalem Above/the spirit realm and Hagar/the earth/the physical realm), and the two covenants (Old/Moses and New/Christ) that pertain to them... and the underlying CHALLENGE made by the Adversary of ALL of them... and most particularly "SARAH'S" seed (Revelation 12:17)... is that, rather than be like their "father", Abraham/God... they will only "love" Him IF He cares for and prospers them. But should He ever remove His hand/blessing... they WILL... every one of them, "Isaac" AND "Ishmael" (whom Abraham loved, BOTH)... will curse Him to His very face. Even if it means death! Job 1:6-12; 2:1-9
Thanks for clarification.
Again, you are quite welcome!
Agreed here. There are many different ways to understand the vernacular "holy spirit"
There are! Yet, how are WE to know which is meant/true at a particular place? I know of only one way: ASK... the One who IS that Spirit... and who dispenses God's holy spirit!
At the source
Yes! Because the further down the "river" you drink, the greater the risk of pollutants/diminished nutrients! In the case of "living water", then... and TRUTH... one should endeavor to drink... FROM THE SOURCE! Christ is the ONLY Source of these, dear one - he is the only One appointed by God to DISPENSE both! There is no other... no "third" entity! That is a LIE!
In the spirit realm, death is the turning off of energy.
Not quite, dear one. Death IS an entity. He is actually a KING. His realm is the "abyss"... which is LOWEST place in the spirit realm. His name is Abaddon/Apollyon. He is also called The Destroyer and [the angel of] Destruction. He SWALLOWS up that "energy"... which is the source of life. Such "feeding" gives HIM strength (although not anywhere near the strength of the Most Holy One of Israel - not even close). He is controlled by JAH. He has NO authority in the SPIRIT realm - He exists there, but he doesn't have the authority to "feed" there. In contrast, he was GIVEN authority to feed HERE... by Adham. He actually entered INTO this realm through Adham:
When his (Death's) agent, Belial, convinced Adham that he could have what he WOULD have received (knowing good (life) AND bad (death) and still live) NOW... rather than waiting until the time that the Most Holy of Israel GRANTED it to him... Adham exchanged the life of his wife, Eve, and that of all of their children... for that opportunity. In doing so, he "opened the way" for Death to ENTER... and begin consuming "energy"... life... in THIS realm. The penalty for that, though, was that Adham (and Eve) were the first to begin succumbing to that result - Death began to "feed" on THEM, first!
There is a bit more to this situation, as well, but for the sake of brevity, I won't go further into it, other than to say that Adham COULD have stopped the entire thing... had he only did what Christ did... and offered up HIS life... as a "sacrifice" and atonement for what HIS wife did. Like Christ, who offered up his life on behalf of HIS "Bride"... Adham COULD have asked that Eve be forgiven and he be taken FOR her... rather than choosing to eat WITH her... which would have shown his love... for her AND God. In that case, HER sin would have been covered by HIS sacrifice... and HIS sacrifice would have been turned back (like Isaac's)... because it would have been an act of LOVE (for which there is NO law and which covers a multitude of transgressions, even Eve's). He did NOT do this, however; rather, he sought his OWN selfish longing... to the detriment of all of mankind... HIS children... to date.
Keep in mind that, like "holy spirit," the word/term "death" has more than one meaning. It means the absence of life, the future prospect of those waiting destruction, as well as a spirit entity who has the authority to "feed" on certain life forces (spirit/"energy"). Exodus 12:29; Hebrews 11:28; 1 Corinthians 10:10
It is a reality that can happen on both sides of the spectrum
No, dear one: death does NOT occur in the spirit realm. Death EXISTS... but spirits don't die (which is why they are "immortal") - they must be destroyed... and can only BE destroyed... by fire.
The same law that applies to those that pass over - rebirth to life - is the same law that gives rebirth on the other side.
I must admit that I don't quite understand what you're saying, here. No one "passes" over, per se... with the exception of few: Enoch, Moses, Elijah. And, of course, our Lord. The first three were transferred (transfigured/changed) so as not to see death. Our Lord died, went to the world of the dead... even as far as the entry to the pit (abyss) to preach to the spirits there (so as to give them opportunity to put faith in him, even after death)... and then entered into the "highest" part of the spirit realm, the MOST Holy.
When people die, however, one of two things occurs: (1) if they belong to JAH, through Christ... their spirit returns to Him... to lie sleeping "under the altar," until such time as it is resurrected (in the spirit bodies/"white robes" they receive - Ecclesiastes 12:7; Revelation 6:9-11); or (2) if they don't belong to JAH... their spirits go to the world of the dead (Sheol/Hades)... where they sleep... conscious of nothing that occurs in the realm of the living (either in the spirit realm OR the physical realm - Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Job 14:13; Psalm 6:5; 16:10; Revelation 20:13).
Our Lord's depiction recorded at Luke 16:19-31 covers a short period before one "enters" into Sheol/Hades and sleeps there... while others are reclining with Abraham at his (Christ's) table in the kingdom. Because Abraham and Lazarus are seen "reclining" (Matthew 8:11)... versus sleeping under the altar... this depiction is future and occurs after Christ has returned and raised up those who belong to HIM... to join him in the "wedding feast" in the kingdom... but not yet completed the separating of the "sheep" and "goats." Matthew 25:31-46
It is then that you come to understand that Yahweh is the Law-giver, the only source of life.
For me, I came to understand it when our Lord explained and showed it to me. He did not explain the Most Holy One of Israel as a "law-giver." To the contrary, he explained Him to me as a law FORGIVER... One who is merciful, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness. He told me that it is those who are concerned WITH "law"... who can't truly see God... becauseGod is seen NOT through "law"... but through LOVE. He said that looking to "law" puts a veil on the HEART, but looking to Christ REMOVES that veil. That is not to say that there are no laws... or that those that exist should be ignored, no. His point was that if one concerns oneself with knowing God... through knowing HIM (Christ)... rather than trying to "see" Him through "laws"... of whatever nature... one will see the TRUTH... and the true depiction. Whereas, when one tries to see God through looking at laws... one will see a very distorted picture.
Which is what most SEE... and so why most either exploit others by using "God"... or end up "hating" Him: because all they can see are the laws... which they either use to [try and] control/oppress their fellowman... or resent and perceive as burdensome... due to their perceived application to themselves/those they love.
If they would turn to Christ, though... and look at HIM... they would have their sight "cleared up" and see the TRUTH: that God IS love and His laws/commandments are NOT burdensome, either upon us... or as we might apply them to others. To the contrary, they grant FREEDOM; they are the ONLY way for man to "truly BE free" - by following the laws of God. Not as MAN knows and teaches them... but as CHRIST knows... and teaches... them!
We came into existence through raw energy
Yes! That "raw energy," however, is none other that the TRUE Light... PURE energy... CHRIST! Although HE did not create us... we came into existence... EVERYTHING came into existence... THROUGH him!
and without God, no cohesion exists for us to live. Without God's spirit we have no life.
No TRUE life, no. We really are dead. It's just a matter of time before our bodies... and, for some, spirits... catch up with that "reality." Which has to do with the "speed"... of TIME.
It seems that most arguments concerning the Trinity and Holy Spirit are due to different translations of the Bible
Perhaps. I think there is more to it than just that, though...
, if only we had one GOOD translation that everyone accepted, half the arguments would probably disappear.
No, because it would still come down to personal interpretation... even of what various things stated in that ONE version "meant." We would have the SAME problem we have NOW: people relying on their OWN understanding... rather than going to the SOURCE... the One whom it's all ABOUT. because no matter how many versions... one or many... if folks don't TRULY believe that he is ALIVE... and regardless of whether they believe he was resurrected, most DON'T believe he is ALIVE... and SPEAKS... they will continue to look to a book... rather than to the ONE... the "copper serpent"... LIFTED UP... while we are in this "wilderness." Rather than looking to HIM... keeping their gaze/eyes on HIM... which they must have FAITH to do... faith to WALK by... they walk by SIGHT. And so, need to "see" it... in writing. Rather than see HIM.
That is the very gist of the problems, the confusion, the misleadings, the oppressions, the falsehoods, the lies, etc. They keep LOOKING... at the wrong THING.
I hope this helps, dear TS. I realize that it's a lot... but your comments prompted it... because, while they are SINCERE, they are not according to ACCURATE knowledge. Such knowledge CANNOT be gained from reading the Bible, however, dear one. Or from reading the commentary of scholars, theologians, and scribes. It can ONLY come from the One who KNOWS God and the MIND of God: His Son, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord, King, Master, Saviour, Redeemer... and "husbandly-owner"... JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who is His "christ."
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and fellow slave of Christ,
SA
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AGuest
Dearest TS, again, peace to you! I have to agree with dear Qcbmr and Poopsie, here (peace to you, both!). While it is sometimes frustrating to have differing/dissenting views on a thread, everyone is and should be entitled to comment if they wish. In the same vein, all have the right to choose not to. On occasion, ones will engage with snide, mocking, ridicule... but that's to be expected, is it not? Indeed, wouldn't we have to consider something "wrong," if we were NEVER opposed, given what our Lord underwent?
Unless you are being personally attacked, therefore, or perceive that our Father or Lord are... we, too, can simply choose to ignore [those we consider to be] "unfruitful" comments. We can choose so even in such cases. Even if you start a thread you really can't censor/restrict others (and you shouldn't) from posting their comments. That is one of the beauties of this board: everyone is free to post! Thus, we can post on unbelievers' threads as to our FAITH, if we so choose, as well!
This thread started out with regard to the Holy Spirit/holy spirit... but has since evolved into other related topics. Okay, that happens. But I never once got that it "wasn't for atheists"; to the contrary, I thought it was an atheist (or agnostic leaning toward atheism) who started it, trying to see how "we" would respond. And that is what prompted MY response in the first place: others reading might actually be concerned with the truth, so...
Anyway, I personally think that one of the errors some make here is thinking that others "shouldn't" comment on certain threads/topics. Everyone has an opinion, POV, etc., and so should be able to state it. Now, again, if they get abusive then they shouldn't get THEIR chonies in a bunch when such is responded to, sometimes in like form. But, for the most part, ALL should be welcome to comment on any and ALL threads, IMHO... so long as they're not abusive (in which case, moderator intervention may be necessary).
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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truthseeker
Qcmbr, Poopsiecakes and AQguest
My apologies for my comments about who can/cannot participate.
Truthseeker
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Qcmbr
Of course the religionists can be as abusive as they like :)
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poopsiecakes
No need to apologize to me...I know I can be a total brat.
It just struck me as hilarious that a thread discussing possible similarities between the 'holy spirit' and 'the force' in Star Wars is being taken so seriously.
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truthseeker
AGuest,
Peace to you. I am enjoying our discussion and while we may not come to an agreement on all things, we are discussing this in a spirit of understanding.
I am not familiar with what you said about God's free wife - are you referring to Sarah as a spirit being, that is Jerusalem Above? That kind of complicates the issue if you don't mind me saying so.
I don't mind and I totally understand. I will explain:
Some of the events recorded in the Bible have a previous or subsequent fulfillment. For example, the situation with Joseph and Pharaoh pre-depicts the position of Christ, the Holy One of Israel (and so "Joseph") and JAH, the MOST Holy One of Israel (and so "Pharaoh"): second in command, over ALL of Pharaoh's belongings and everything in the kingdom... except Pharaoh himself.
I agree with this.
In the same light, the situation with Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Ishmael, and Isaac pre-depict the situation with JAH, "the Woman" of Genesis 3 and Revelation 12 ("Sarah/Jerusalem Above"), the Earth ("Hagar"), sons of the FLESH/fleshly body ("Ishmael")... and the sons of the SPIRIT/promise.("Isaac").
This is new to me, I shall have to give it some thought.
Because he showed himself to be God's friend, Abraham was "promised" a child by his (free) wife, Sarah, who, for most of her life, was barren. This depicts the "promise" that the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, had with the "Woman", Jerusalem Above... the SPIRIT realm... to produce a son, as well. It is what is spoken of at Revelation 12:1-6... and that "son" is the Christ. The DIFFERENCE is that, unlike Sarah, Abraham's wife, THIS "woman"... will have more than ONE child: she will have MANY - Isaiah 54:1-8. She is "Jerusalem Above"... the "mother" of those born IN THE SPIRIT... by means of HOLY SPIRIT... and the promise to HER is represented by the NEW Covenant. This is because, like Sarah, Abraham's wife, SHE (Jerusalem Above) is FREE. Therefore, the covenant with HER children is so as to make THEM free, as well! Galatians 4:22-26. Free from WHAT? Every thing to do with the PHYSICAL body... including death! Sarah was Abraham's free wife, and so Isaac is the true heir. This is why "Israel" was God's chosen people - because of Abraham and the child he had by his free wife, Sarah. Israel are the descendants of Isaac.
Are you saying that Yahweh had a wife and if so, was this wife eternal or created? Jerusalem above is her name? Are we talking of a seperate entity?In the MEANTIME, while waiting for Sarah to have a child, Abraham was given a son by his "slave" wife, Hagar. This was Ishmael, who, although born FIRST, was NOT the rightful heir. Because his mother was not the true wife, but a concubine given to him to produce a son. This depicts the child that the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, made with the "woman", the earth... the PHYSICAL realm... so as to produce another son. It is what is spoken of at Genesis 2:7... and THAT son... was Adham. THIS "woman", the earth... is the mother of those born in the manner of the FLESH, through women of flesh... versus by means of holy spirit... and the result of this is the OLD Covenant. This is because, like Hagar, Abraham's concubine, she (the earth/physical realm) is NOT free. Therefore, the covenant with HER children binds and enslaves THEM! Galatians 4:22-26. To what? Everything to do with the physical body... including death! Hagar was Abraham's SLAVE "wife", and so HER son, Ishmael, could never be the true heir. And so, like Ishamel... who grew jealous of Isaac... these sons "persecute Isaac"... the sons of the TRUE wife. In the same way, those sons of the FLESH persecute the sons of the SPIRIT.
This is because, like their forefather, Adham, the sons of the FLESH have CHOSEN another "father": the Adversary, Belial, who you know as "Satan" and "Devil." They do this because of what HE (Satan) promises them NOW... (which is why Adham sold HIS seed out - for the promise of eating and being "like" God... knowing good (life) AND bad (death)... NOW). They want what he offered our Lord... which our Lord COULD have taken and experienced NOW... but rejected... for the hope he had of what was to COME.
God's purpose in creating Adam was that he and his wife Eve were to live forever in paradise. To keep with His original creation of man through Adam, and not keep trying to find an alternate human line that would obey Him, God gave undeserved kindness beause Adam and Eve were warned that life and death rested in their hands. If they obeyed Him they would have life but we all know what happened and because their offspring were born into sin, it can be said they inherited Adam and Eve’s sin secondhand. Although God forgave the sin it was only through the Adam and Eve's offspring who had never been perfect.
This had to be accomplished according to God’s wisdom and laws. To do that, He asked the Word if he would willingly give up his life in exchange for sinful humans. The Word agreed to do so and in exchange, God agreed to give Christ a Kingdom with those that were saved.
The reason God did not keep creating other humans as test subjects, is because his covenant was with Adam’s line of decent. The human line comes from that single man and woman. To keep his will in line for what he originally wanted, God sought to do it through the first human couple. If he had killed them immediately, none of us would be here but that was not God's will. He wanted mankind to survive, therefore, God did not want to keep testing different lines of humans. This is where undeserved kindness enters because it helps to bring those that love God and His Son back to Him.
In contrast, like THEIR forefather, CHRIST... the sons of the SPIRIT... remain faithful and loyal to the Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. They REJECT the promises held out to them NOW... for the HOPE they have of what is to COME.
More verses/scripture to help you understand this might be Romans 9:6-9; Galatian 4:27-31; Matthew 4:1-11; Genesis 3:1-7; 18:9-15; and 21:1-21; however, there are MANY more, way too many to post here. In fact, these issues/dramas is what ALL that is TRUE in the Bible is entirely ABOUT: the two different sons of God (free/slave), their mothers (Sarah/Jerusalem Above/the spirit realm and Hagar/the earth/the physical realm), and the two covenants (Old/Moses and New/Christ) that pertain to them... and the underlying CHALLENGE made by the Adversary of ALL of them... and most particularly "SARAH'S" seed (Revelation 12:17)... is that, rather than be like their "father", Abraham/God... they will only "love" Him IF He cares for and prospers them. But should He ever remove His hand/blessing... they WILL... every one of them, "Isaac" AND "Ishmael" (whom Abraham loved, BOTH)... will curse Him to His very face. Even if it means death! Job 1:6-12; 2:1-9
Thanks for clarification.
Again, you are quite welcome!
Agreed here. There are many different ways to understand the vernacular "holy spirit"
There are! Yet, how are WE to know which is meant/true at a particular place? I know of only one way: ASK... the One who IS that Spirit... and who dispenses God's holy spirit!
At the source
Yes! Because the further down the "river" you drink, the greater the risk of pollutants/diminished nutrients! In the case of "living water", then... and TRUTH... one should endeavor to drink... FROM THE SOURCE! Christ is the ONLY Source of these, dear one - he is the only One appointed by God to DISPENSE both! There is no other... no "third" entity! That is a LIE!
In the spirit realm, death is the turning off of energy.
Not quite, dear one. Death IS an entity. He is actually a KING. His realm is the "abyss"... which is LOWEST place in the spirit realm. His name is Abaddon/Apollyon. He is also called The Destroyer and [the angel of] Destruction. He SWALLOWS up that "energy"... which is the source of life. Such "feeding" gives HIM strength (although not anywhere near the strength of the Most Holy One of Israel - not even close). He is controlled by JAH. He has NO authority in the SPIRIT realm - He exists there, but he doesn't have the authority to "feed" there. In contrast, he was GIVEN authority to feed HERE... by Adham. He actually entered INTO this realm through Adham:
This is where I must disagree. Death is a state of inactivity whereby the life force of a spirit or individual ceases to exist. Death is not a person, though I see the symbolism in that God will "swallow up death forever."
When his (Death's) agent, Belial, convinced Adham that he could have what he WOULD have received (knowing good (life) AND bad (death) and still live) NOW... rather than waiting until the time that the Most Holy of Israel GRANTED it to him... Adham exchanged the life of his wife, Eve, and that of all of their children... for that opportunity. In doing so, he "opened the way" for Death to ENTER... and begin consuming "energy"... life... in THIS realm. The penalty for that, though, was that Adham (and Eve) were the first to begin succumbing to that result - Death began to "feed" on THEM, first!
It took many centuries for Adam and Eve to die. Since God did not immediately kill them, some of the angels took note of this. After a few hundred years when mankind had grown and Satan was still free, the angels thought God was not going to do anything to the first human pair of the Devil. They did not know that 1,000 years is like one day to God, so they grew impatient, but in God's mind, Adam and Eve did die in the day God said they would. More angels took note and they pursued their own selfish desires, wanting to live on earth as humans.
There is a bit more to this situation, as well, but for the sake of brevity, I won't go further into it, other than to say that Adham COULD have stopped the entire thing... had he only did what Christ did... and offered up HIS life... as a "sacrifice" and atonement for what HIS wife did. Like Christ, who offered up his life on behalf of HIS "Bride"... Adham COULD have asked that Eve be forgiven and he be taken FOR her... rather than choosing to eat WITH her... which would have shown his love... for her AND God. In that case, HER sin would have been covered by HIS sacrifice... and HIS sacrifice would have been turned back (like Isaac's)... because it would have been an act of LOVE (for which there is NO law and which covers a multitude of transgressions, even Eve's). He did NOT do this, however; rather, he sought his OWN selfish longing... to the detriment of all of mankind... HIS children... to date.
Keep in mind that, like "holy spirit," the word/term "death" has more than one meaning. It means the absence of life, the future prospect of those waiting destruction, as well as a spirit entity who has the authority to "feed" on certain life forces (spirit/"energy"). Exodus 12:29; Hebrews 11:28; 1 Corinthians 10:10
It is a reality that can happen on both sides of the spectrum
No, dear one: death does NOT occur in the spirit realm. Death EXISTS... but spirits don't die (which is why they are "immortal") - they must be destroyed... and can only BE destroyed... by fire.
I was told that death can occur in the spirit realm. It is a switching off of energy. Only the creator can reanimate spirits. As for immortality, only the Creator has true immortality, all other creation exists because God exists and without God all things would cease to exist because by his spirit we live.
1 Timothy 6:13-16
New International Version (NIV)
13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
The same law that applies to those that pass over - rebirth to life - is the same law that gives rebirth on the other side.
I must admit that I don't quite understand what you're saying, here. No one "passes" over, per se... with the exception of few: Enoch, Moses, Elijah. And, of course, our Lord. The first three were transferred (transfigured/changed) so as not to see death. Our Lord died, went to the world of the dead... even as far as the entry to the pit (abyss) to preach to the spirits there (so as to give them opportunity to put faith in him, even after death)... and then entered into the "highest" part of the spirit realm, the MOST Holy.
When people die, however, one of two things occurs: (1) if they belong to JAH, through Christ... their spirit returns to Him... to lie sleeping "under the altar," until such time as it is resurrected (in the spirit bodies/"white robes" they receive - Ecclesiastes 12:7; Revelation 6:9-11); or (2) if they don't belong to JAH... their spirits go to the world of the dead (Sheol/Hades)... where they sleep... conscious of nothing that occurs in the realm of the living (either in the spirit realm OR the physical realm - Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Job 14:13; Psalm 6:5; 16:10; Revelation 20:13).
Our Lord's depiction recorded at Luke 16:19-31 covers a short period before one "enters" into Sheol/Hades and sleeps there... while others are reclining with Abraham at his (Christ's) table in the kingdom. Because Abraham and Lazarus are seen "reclining" (Matthew 8:11)... versus sleeping under the altar... this depiction is future and occurs after Christ has returned and raised up those who belong to HIM... to join him in the "wedding feast" in the kingdom... but not yet completed the separating of the "sheep" and "goats." Matthew 25:31-46
Again, I must disagree here. The JWs do not believe in life after death. I believe that when we die, we pass over to the spirit realm. Those marked by Christ because of their conduct "cross" over into the light, they become Holy Ghosts. They can then petition to be a guide to humans on Earth.
Those person who pass over and receive an education concerning Yahew's sovereign Law and choose to reject his Rulership, they become converts, because they are converted to Satan's way of thinking. They want a world they left behind not a world of righteousness under God's rulership. The converts remain on this planet and spend their time bothering people, playing tricks on them, especially in the ghost hunter TV shows.
As for babies and children, they’re under special arrangement with the Creator when they pass over. Christ made note of this at Matthew 18:10: "See that you don’t look down on one of these little ones, because I tell you that in heaven their angels continually view the face of My Father in heaven." Sometimes problems occur with children who are up in age and can understand some of what has happened.
Young children are not required to do anything more than, receive the promised hope mentioned at Colossians 1:5 "The hope that is being reserved for you in the heavens.” Children who are of an age where they understand what has happened are sometimes apprehensive about accepting the Creator's arrangement because they do not wish to leave the first plane of existence. They do not understand fully what has happened to them and they want to be back with their parents. In some cases, children are watched over by Holy Ghosts until they can be persuaded to leave the lower planes.
Those who were unlawfully killed or died an accidental death pass over immediately. In the case of murder, the victims do not normally seek revenge. If a victim that was crossed over does not want to go with Holy Ghosts they cannot be made to do so. In many cases, victims are so upset that someone took their life, they stay where the crime took place, often haunting it, because they cannot accept their life is over. In most cases, they had a full life ahead of them, wife, kids, career etc. They are left alone to work things out.
As for those who led vile lives, they are spiritual tagged. When they pass over, they are apprehended and taken to the Creator where their crimes are played out by witnesses. Sentence is passed and they are taken to dark realms of imprisonment until the final judgement.
It is then that you come to understand that Yahweh is the Law-giver, the only source of life.
For me, I came to understand it when our Lord explained and showed it to me. He did not explain the Most Holy One of Israel as a "law-giver." To the contrary, he explained Him to me as a law FORGIVER... One who is merciful, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness. He told me that it is those who are concerned WITH "law"... who can't truly see God... becauseGod is seen NOT through "law"... but through LOVE. He said that looking to "law" puts a veil on the HEART, but looking to Christ REMOVES that veil. That is not to say that there are no laws... or that those that exist should be ignored, no. His point was that if one concerns oneself with knowing God... through knowing HIM (Christ)... rather than trying to "see" Him through "laws"... of whatever nature... one will see the TRUTH... and the true depiction. Whereas, when one tries to see God through looking at laws... one will see a very distorted picture.
Which is what most SEE... and so why most either exploit others by using "God"... or end up "hating" Him: because all they can see are the laws... which they either use to [try and] control/oppress their fellowman... or resent and perceive as burdensome... due to their perceived application to themselves/those they love.
If they would turn to Christ, though... and look at HIM... they would have their sight "cleared up" and see the TRUTH: that God IS love and His laws/commandments are NOT burdensome, either upon us... or as we might apply them to others. To the contrary, they grant FREEDOM; they are the ONLY way for man to "truly BE free" - by following the laws of God. Not as MAN knows and teaches them... but as CHRIST knows... and teaches... them!
We came into existence through raw energy
Yes! That "raw energy," however, is none other that the TRUE Light... PURE energy... CHRIST! Although HE did not create us... we came into existence... EVERYTHING came into existence... THROUGH him!
and without God, no cohesion exists for us to live. Without God's spirit we have no life.
No TRUE life, no. We really are dead. It's just a matter of time before our bodies... and, for some, spirits... catch up with that "reality." Which has to do with the "speed"... of TIME.
It seems that most arguments concerning the Trinity and Holy Spirit are due to different translations of the Bible
Perhaps. I think there is more to it than just that, though...
, if only we had one GOOD translation that everyone accepted, half the arguments would probably disappear.
No, because it would still come down to personal interpretation... even of what various things stated in that ONE version "meant." We would have the SAME problem we have NOW: people relying on their OWN understanding... rather than going to the SOURCE... the One whom it's all ABOUT. because no matter how many versions... one or many... if folks don't TRULY believe that he is ALIVE... and regardless of whether they believe he was resurrected, most DON'T believe he is ALIVE... and SPEAKS... they will continue to look to a book... rather than to the ONE... the "copper serpent"... LIFTED UP... while we are in this "wilderness." Rather than looking to HIM... keeping their gaze/eyes on HIM... which they must have FAITH to do... faith to WALK by... they walk by SIGHT. And so, need to "see" it... in writing. Rather than see HIM.
That is the very gist of the problems, the confusion, the misleadings, the oppressions, the falsehoods, the lies, etc. They keep LOOKING... at the wrong THING.
I hope this helps, dear TS. I realize that it's a lot... but your comments prompted it... because, while they are SINCERE, they are not according to ACCURATE knowledge. Such knowledge CANNOT be gained from reading the Bible, however, dear one. Or from reading the commentary of scholars, theologians, and scribes. It can ONLY come from the One who KNOWS God and the MIND of God: His Son, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord, King, Master, Saviour, Redeemer... and "husbandly-owner"... JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who is His "christ."
Again, peace to you!
YOUR servant and fellow slave of Christ,
SA
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poopsiecakes
Next topic: does Anakin Skywalker represent Jesus? discuss...
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designs
poopsie- In the Revelation Grand Climax Book Jesus has a real Light Saber, its true!
Have you actually read the title of the thread??