Who designed cancer?

by snare&racket 148 Replies latest jw friends

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  snare&racket

  I am laughing hard. keep the faith brother.

  What are those subjects? They are not degrees? Have you done modules as part of a college course of some kind?

  Spending an afternoon in a Darwin exhinition is impressive for someone like yourself, i sincerely commend you for it. However its the equivelant of going to a race track and then debating mechanical engineering. Pick up a book...

  Once again what is your specific issue with Evolution?

  What was the relevance of the wiki article? (I prefer Janeways immunobiology to the internet btw)
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  Yan Bibiyan

  Vidqun,

  You keep avoiding the OP question: "Who designed cancer?" (and other horible diseases)

  If it was designed, who designed it? If it evolved, then say so. If you don't know, just say you don't know. Very simple.
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  poopsiecakes

  
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  Qcmbr

  I love these threads - now I'm on the side of Cofty!
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  snare&racket

  tec you make an intersting point, please take the time to read and answer me this...

  Do you know how evolution works? It depends on error. Evolution depends on genetic mutation, i.e. the protein reading the dna code making mistakes (among other similar means) this provides diversity in genes and a means for organisms to develop mutations that may prove advantageous to their enviroment. The very same process creates disease and illness.

  So here is the obvious question, you cant have evolution without disease..... how can god be behind it all ? The biblical story doesnt fit.
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  Vidqun

  TD, yes I believe you're right, cell membrane, skin, mucous, tears and sputum (also the HCL in your stomach) are part of the protective barrier, preventing pathogens from breaching the perimeter. As you are born the program of your immune system is "a clean slate" in a manner of speaking. Gradually you are introduced to antigens, and your immune system becomes trained to recognize more and more antigens. The innoculations, when young, is a part of this "training" process.

  The blood fractions, or Immunoglobulins (Ig), so on topic on this board, is part of the immune respons. E.g., IgE has to do with our allergic response. Some of these can move through the placenta, from mother to baby, and can cause problems when the baby is born. Very few can penetrate the blood-brain barrier. Some can move from the blood into the tissues. IgM comes from the B-lymphocytes and latches on to antigens. T-lymphocytes are then dispatched. Some of these are memory cells, to remember previous infections. Then there is the Natural killer cells or T-cells, sent to "blow" up the invader.

  Anonymous, here I am with tec Tammy. I believe there is a difference between evolution (into a new species) and adaptation (adapting to new circumstances, however remaining part of the same species). Most living things adapt to new circumstances. Now with global warming, we'll see a lot of that. Another good example is hospital infections caused by super bugs, resistant to most antibiotics, causing immense problems in the hospital environment, e.g. methicillin resistant S. aureus, Pseudomonas, Klebsiella, etc. By the way, these are our creation, because doctors start the patient off with advanced antibiotics, and when the organism becomes resistant, the options soon run out. These change, but remain part of their original genus.
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  snare&racket

  Sorry Vidqun,

  It took me a moment to realise the point you were trying to make.

  You have made a mistake. The article you posted is simply listing all the cell types of the body a virus cell can infect. Some of which are cells used in immunology. You are mistaking the fact an article has the word virus and immune it as supporting your strange ideas about physiology. Viruses infect immune cells, surely you realise the weakness in your argument ?

  Just explain to us what the immune system currently fails to do, that you think god will change to make it better. #

  I assume you have not really thought this out, as it still leaves us with the issue of diseases roaming about designed by someone... (not true - we know how they evolved step by step.)
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  cofty

  I believe there is a difference between evolution (into a new species) and adaptation (adapting to new circumstances, however remaining part of the same species).... Another good example is hospital infections caused by super bugs... These change, but remain part of their original genus

  So where are you drawing your arbitrary lines? At the species level or at the level of genus? Are you really trying to deny speciation?

  How many individual species did god create? Did he create the Great Black Backed Gull, the Lesser Black Backed Gull the Black Headed Gull and the Herring Gull individually?

  I am willing to bet you won't give us a straight answer.
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  tec

  Cofty, I think evolution of a species that adapts to its environment in order to allow its survival is a clever and amazing thing. I never made any statement beyond that. But I do think that this is clever and amazing. I also think that our immune systems are amazing, our self-healing is amazing, our human bandaids (scabs/scars) are amazing. We get sick, our immune systems fight back against that invasive force. I think its incredible, anyway, that we heal at all. But we heal because everything in us (cells, blood, antibodies, whatever) is living, right? Living, adapting, fighting, evolving.

  Also, if species are evolving, then instead of going e x tinct, some of them live on in a newer version. Such as dinosaurs. They didn't go e x tinct. They evolved. Perhaps not every single type of dinosaur, but dinosaurs themselves did. Now the down side would seem to be that the harmful things also evolve and adapt and become better 'killers', I guess is the word. But could life (physical life) occur under any other circumstances than the ones that we have?

  Peace,

  Tammy
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  snare&racket

  Vidqun,

  Been as you only a day ago claimed ridiculous things about medicine, your sudden increased knowlege in the area is odd.

  Of course you are simply reading online and typing it here. You have not answered one thing at all, but just written two paragraphs on immunology. Ironically, information that we have come to know from the same scientific process that brought us evolutionary evidence.

  "I believe there is a difference between evolution (into a new species) and adaptation (adapting to new circumstances, however remaining part of the same species)."

  What is the difference? What evidence led you to this belief ? Do you really not believe that with time the changes can be incrementally be so considerable that the organism becomes a different species? Look at dogs , all stem from one type, selected for breeding by men...they have such a wide variety in size and features. This only took a few thousand years. Over millions of years much is possible.The term natural selection is just to clarify that the enviroment does the selecting (not literally) rather than a human breeder. E.g. if an enviroment gets colder, an animal that by freak mutation has a thicker coat will dominate the gene pool.

  Species is a human definition by the way, its nothing more than semantics.

  What is your opinion on Neandethals? There DNA says they are not human, yet they communicated, had tools, clothing, trade, jewelery, homes etc.

  What about homo erectus? What about...... ok ill leave it there. But be honest, they do not add up in the biblical story. All of these species had sickness and disease. What about the human remains from hundreds of thousands of years ago.. they were no different to us buddy.

  I know you dont like talking about dinosaurs that lived for 150 million years, 60 million years ago. But how do they fit into the plans of god?