Evil Spirits

by LizLA 294 Replies latest jw experiences

ProdigalSon

I've got news for you New Chapter. We are ALL mentally ill. That's what's wrong with humanity. That's what happened at the "fall of man" in the Garden of Eden story. Division of the mind. Left and right hemispheres separated. Nearly completely unplugged. All of us to different degrees but sick nonetheless. There's lots of research on this. Look into the Bicameral Mind or the Division of Consciousness by Peter Novak.
Jesus said that when you make your eye "single", you will enter the Kingdom of the Heavens. This is exactly what he was talking about.
NewChapter

And I've got news for you PS. There are delusional people in the world---not all spiritual people are delusional---but to accept without any question whatsover is plain foolishness. The fact is even YOU don't know if the problem is spirits! So what's so f**king obnoxious about encouraging that person to get checked out? Hmmm? Are you so worried that investigating further may indeed find mental illness and not spirits? What if we are helping?
NC
botchtowersociety

LOL!!! BTS--- I was trying to edit that out. You know---you have a habit of busting on all my pre-edits.
No probs. Fixed it.
NewChapter

Aw thanks BTS. You know I was listening to a talk show the other day and they relayed a comic that they had seen. It was a wife calling her husband to bed. He said, "I can't come to bed yet, someone is wrong on the internet." I had to giggle. They must know us.
NC
EntirelyPossible

With some nonsense 2nd grade website about dolphins making sounds and whistles?
No, with some 1st grade facts about dolphins making sounds and whistles.
That's not what I had in mind.
Whatever weird ideas with no proof or evidence you have in your head that you think are true because they can't be disproved... well, that's really not my problem, is it?
I was thinking more along the line of how they communicate telepathically across thousands of miles.
They don't. Unless, of course, you have a tested, falsifiable hypothesis demonstrating repeatable results that they do.
Or how do birds communicate instantly in order for entire flocks to fly in such perfect unison as if they were one single body.
Define perfect. And that was totally answered. Just because you don't want to beleive it doesn't make it untrue.
Those links didn't answer jack shit.
No, they didn't. They answered your questions. Jack shit wasn't one of your questions.
Your science cannot even begin to explain things like remote viewing, but we do know that the CIA spends tons of money researching it. Maybe they're all deluded too. Maybe they should go have their sanity checked.
I actually think that might be a good idea. They also injected people with radiation and gave them hallicinogenic drugs without they're knowledge. They are some pretty fucked up people in parts of the CIA.
But some of you have a habit of immediately questioning a person's sanity because they don't see things the way you do. It's fucking obnoxious bullshit and I will call you out on it every time I see it.
No, it's not questioning people sanity, it's saying they need help. What you are doing doesn't help. You have this idea that if something can't be disproved, it must be true. Ideas that have no basis in reality, no facts or evidence to back them up (chemtrails, anyone?) and start spouting bullshit wrong ideas about science and accusing people of being sheep if they don't agree with you. You never have proof, a developed hypothesis and when people give you ways to test your ideas, you blow them off and change the subject.
You are the worst kind of person to go spread information and pretend that you "call bullshit" on anything. You are wading nose deep in bullshit and do nothing but spout garbage and, when called on it, change the subject, call people names, claim something about a CIA/Bilderberg/Rothschild/Illuminati coverup and change the subject.
You wanna call bullshit? Come up with a test, a falsifiable hypothesis and let's test it. Do it for chemtrails. Do it for spirits. Go for it. Write down your hypothesis, how to test it, success/fail criteria and let's see what you've got.
Otherwise, you are just spouting the bullshit you like to wade it and, to quote you, it's fucking obnoxious. Not to mention silly and stupid.
EntirelyPossible

Division of the mind. Left and right hemispheres separated. Nearly completely unplugged. All of us to different degrees but sick nonetheless. There's lots of research on this.
Yeah, perfect example. They halves of the brain are separated and nearly completely unplugged, except, you know, for that thing connecting them, the corpus callosum. They are so nearly completely unplugged that the corpus callosum is the largest white matter structure in the brain.
I call BS on this one.
Unless, of course, you've got some evidence that 1)the fall of man happened (granted, I did fall pretty hard snowboarding last week, but that was the fall of a man) and 2)that before the fall the halves of the brain were better connected and 3)that the is at least some corollary evidence that the fall was what changed the connective structure.
What do you have?
AGuest

I could be wrong (peace to you all!)... but I think dear Liz (peace to you, dear one!) got what she was looking for on this and has moved on. I would like to add, though, if I may, that acknowledging the existence of spirits isn't necessarily a faith thing, a "religious" thing, or even a mental health matter (although it can be connected to any of these). It really depends on what the person allowing place for them believes for that. A person can believe none of this, however, still believe in spirit beings (for the sake of argument, I'll say "non-human/earthly" beings...) and not be delusional.
If you disagree, then as dear PSon (peace to you!) intimated all (well, most of mankind) are delusional. Because governments, scientific institutions, universities, scientists, and scholars the WORLD over... even today... expend exorbitant amount of time and money pursuing ways to prove [their] existence. Unfortunately, as dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you!) pointed out, these simply have not discovered HOW to to DO that, to "communicate", see, hear, etc., with such beings. Yet. I've no doubt, though, that some of them will... and/or have already... figured out that the problem lies with the "instruments" they use... or think they need to use.
Unfortunately, there is no money... no grants, awards, stipends, salaries, etc., in going with the real way... because there are no electronic/mechanical instruments, satellite dishes the size of a small village... or satellites the size of a small state... panels of buttons or walls of monitors, graphs, screens, diagrams, maps, laboratories, atom smashers, underground tunnels, elevators, facilities... special vehicles, rocket fuel, advanced chemistry, biology, calculus, physics, etc., and those who make their living off such things... needed. Same thing from a religious aspect - no money it. No souls to pay for with human currency, no fancy wardrobes, edifices, publications, farms, convents, monasteries, etc.
Thus, no incentive to just go... through the Door. Too easy, and... NO PROFIT.
People make their living "looking" for things... that are actually right in front of their noses.
Just sayin'. Again, though, appears that dear Liz may have moved on. Think I will, too.
Peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA

tec

Yes, matter and energy being different forms of the same thing is a theory that holds up under testing, is falsifiable and has predictive powers.

Yes, I think that's really ex citing.

Yes, you CAN assert that spirits are energy, but you need to describe some properties of the energy. For example, there is thermal energy, kinetic energy, potential energy, chemical energy, electric energy, etc. All have specific, measurable manifestations that can be

described, predicted, measured.

I hear you. But I can't answer those questions. As far as I know, there is no measurable manifestation of the spiritual that can be described, predicted, measured... not from any scientific pov. I guess correct prophecy could be evidence of the spirit speaking... or any of those gifts (such as faith healing). I know we have accounts of some of those things happening... but for the most part, disbeleived or another e x planation is available. And there are always frauds.

Plus, I don't even know if my 'description' is accurate. I don't think that it is. I just think its the best I can do with what we know. Sort of like how Paul (I think Paul) described 'putting on and taking off the flesh', which (if true) could later be described as different ways we perceive/manifest energy... or the transformation from matter to energy, and vice versa. If it is true and the same thing, then in the future, I imagine that there will be an even more accuate description. So... sort of the best terms available according to the knowledge available, in describing a more comple x thing .

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Its hard to describe something that we might not even have the terms/words to use to accurately describe that thing.


The transformation of that energy into matter (and vice versa) ALSO comes in many forms that can be measured, tested for, described, etc, etc. The energy or matter lost in the conversion is a known quantity, the amount of energy per gram of matter is know, etc. Granted, dark matter and energy exist and they are not well described and understood, but their effects is directly measurable and has been described for some time. Because they appear to be largely inert, they don't interact much with the universe that is observable in light spectrum. Okay. I got that. Sort of. Actually, what I got is that we have a good understanding of some forms of energy/matter... and far less of an understanding of another form, so far. But we can measure both of these. I e x pect that there are far more things (including energy and its applications/effects) that we have not even begun to discover. So we can't measure those. So, if spirits are energy and we can measure energy, how do we measure spirits? It is totally permissable to build one theory on another, but you have to describe that theory in a way that can be tested and falsified. I mean, they can measure individual particles in the LHC, surely we can measure the energy a visible spirit would give off, or one that can move things around. We should... perhaps... IF a spirit could be visible and/or move things around. I don't know if that is true. Or even if the energy that is a spirit could be belongs to any of those categories listed above. And I'm not trying to build a theory. Just share some thoughts... that are based on trust in Christ, more than science. I see things in science that seem to back up some of the things that Christ did and taught, and that his followers taught (such as putting on/taking off the flesh). But there is no scientific proof of that, and I think it could be a long time in coming. Then there is the matter of theorizing how a pure energy being would retain intelligence, which, as far as we know, requires matter. Now, that part I will let you slide on as we have yet to observe and measure this energy and we are still in the phase of developing the hypothesis. Okay :) Let's just stick with measuring the energy of the spirit. What kind of energy is it (thermal, kinetic, electric, chemical, etc.)? Don't know, as I said. What kind of device might measure that energy? Don't know. Don't think we've progressed enough to have the tools/device/whatever needed to measure that... if such a thing will even be necessary. Why have previous attempts failed? Becasue we don't have the tools, and we don't know what we're looking for? Under what conditions would the hypothesis that of an energy spirit NOT hold true? For me? In the case of an energy spirit... if spirit was defined and proven to be something else other than 'energy'. For the spirit, itself, perhaps if all e x periences of spiritual things were proven to be caused by something else. Proven, not theorized... and even then, I think someone would have had to prove to me (not theorize), that Christ was a myth, and my trust is misplaced, and anything I might hear/feel from Him is instead caused by (?). For a scientific hypothesis... the same perhaps (not about Christ, but the other things). I'm not sure. If I put some thought to it, I might be able to come up with something, but those 'somethings' would be theories as well, and not guarentees of falsifiability. Because new info can change an entire outlook very quickly. I am more than happy to help you develop this hypothesis. Well, like I said, I'm not trying to come up with a hypothesis. I mean, it could be fun to do the theory work... but above me. But if ever I can, then I will be more than happy to let you help me develop it. Peace my friend, tammy

The transformation of that energy into matter (and vice versa) ALSO comes in many forms that can be measured, tested for, described, etc, etc. The energy or matter lost in the conversion is a known quantity, the amount of energy per gram of matter is know, etc. Granted, dark matter and energy exist and they are not well described and understood, but their effects is directly measurable and has been described for some time. Because they appear to be largely inert, they don't interact much with the universe that is observable in light spectrum.

Okay. I got that. Sort of.

Actually, what I got is that we have a good understanding of some forms of energy/matter... and far less of an understanding of another form, so far. But we can measure both of these.

I e x pect that there are far more things (including energy and its applications/effects) that we have not even begun to discover. So we can't measure those.

So, if spirits are energy and we can measure energy, how do we measure spirits? It is totally permissable to build one theory on another, but you have to describe that theory in a way that can be tested and falsified. I mean, they can measure individual particles in the LHC, surely we can measure the energy a visible spirit would give off, or one that can move things around.

We should... perhaps... IF a spirit could be visible and/or move things around. I don't know if that is true. Or even if the energy that is a spirit could be belongs to any of those categories listed above.

And I'm not trying to build a theory. Just share some thoughts... that are based on trust in Christ, more than science. I see things in science that seem to back up some of the things that Christ did and taught, and that his followers taught (such as putting on/taking off the flesh). But there is no scientific proof of that, and I think it could be a long time in coming.

Then there is the matter of theorizing how a pure energy being would retain intelligence, which, as far as we know, requires matter. Now, that part I will let you slide on as we have yet to observe and measure this energy and we are still in the phase of developing the hypothesis.

Okay :)

Let's just stick with measuring the energy of the spirit. What kind of energy is it (thermal, kinetic, electric, chemical, etc.)?

Don't know, as I said.

What kind of device might measure that energy?

Don't know. Don't think we've progressed enough to have the tools/device/whatever needed to measure that... if such a thing will even be necessary.

Why have previous attempts failed?

Becasue we don't have the tools, and we don't know what we're looking for?

Under what conditions would the hypothesis that of an energy spirit NOT hold true?

For me? In the case of an energy spirit... if spirit was defined and proven to be something else other than 'energy'.

For the spirit, itself, perhaps if all e x periences of spiritual things were proven to be caused by something else. Proven, not theorized... and even then, I think someone would have had to prove to me (not theorize), that Christ was a myth, and my trust is misplaced, and anything I might hear/feel from Him is instead caused by (?).

For a scientific hypothesis... the same perhaps (not about Christ, but the other things). I'm not sure. If I put some thought to it, I might be able to come up with something, but those 'somethings' would be theories as well, and not guarentees of falsifiability. Because new info can change an entire outlook very quickly.

I am more than happy to help you develop this hypothesis.

Well, like I said, I'm not trying to come up with a hypothesis. I mean, it could be fun to do the theory work... but above me. But if ever I can, then I will be more than happy to let you help me develop it.

Peace my friend,

tammy

Shanagirl

LizLa,
Peace be with you and turn to the Christ and His Heavenly Ineffable, unnameable Father. Also read the book from the Apocryphon Of the Apostle john, which explains how these demon angels became interested in the modaled forms they created.
The Secret Book of John
Click here: The Secret Book of John (Apocryphon of John)
(The Apocryphon of John)
Translated by Stevan Davies

Shana
Judge Dread

LizLA has probably left and will not be back.
The poster encountered a group of people who left a religion partly because they saw it as judgemental, the people in it as "closed minded" and a religion that said "you MUST believe what WE believe, because WE ARE the truth".
The poster found that same group of people just as intolerant and judgemental as they were when they belonged to that religion.
Just as fanatical, just as closed-minded, and just as big a bunch of assholes.
That is what SOME of you are................a bunch of stupid, idiotic ASSHOLES.
JudgeDreadWarock

Evil Spirits

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