EP, you are a rude son of a bitch. You've been calling more than half the people batshit crazy since I've been here. This is what I have a problem with. I don't care what you believe or don't believe. I don't know if the OP was trolling, she probably was. It has nothing to do with what I posted. I was attempting to reassure watersprout that belief in spirits is not a delusion. You are a clueless atheist and you cannot even begin to explain what thought is or how it works. Thoughts being the basis of reality are the foundation of metaphysical science, like Kabbalah, which to you, is nonsense. That is what sets humans apart from the animals, we can make our thoughts become a physical reality. That makes us Co-Creators. That is the knowledge hidden by the selfish Masters. But you sir, are just an animal. According to you, science and mysticism will never merge and we will be stuck in the Dark Ages forever. Thank God you are wrong. Stay in your world of ignorance but don't try to keep the rest of the world stuck with you. You serve the purpose of the Old World Order and I wouldn't be surprised if they're paying you to troll this place.
Evil Spirits
by LizLA 294 Replies latest jw experiences
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Qcmbr
An odd post PS - on so many levels. Are you merely venting or is this your considered position? I appreciate that calling names can be offensive though on the internet I suspect the rule is to dilute the name calling 1 part to 10 parts indifference. For example I personally think anyone still claiming to favour belief or faith over modern science is at worst 'batsh*t crazy' and at the least hypocritical (unless they do indeed live the life of a wandering, aesthetic eschewing modern appliances and posting on this forum through telepathy.) I'd hope you didn't sit up all night upset at my opinion while thinking of witty putdowns to 'win' any flame war - life's too precious for that.
Science is gradually expanding our understanding of the natural world and its laws and it truly is breathtaking and more strange than the neolothic mythmakers could ever imagine (certainly their stories only ever involved the limited macro world they could perceive and completely missed the microscopic world). Indeed it is only recently that mysticism has got all excited and got its second wing simply due to it latching onto quantum physics an exciting, challenging field if there ever was one but hardly a world full of goblins, ghouls and gods.
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cofty
Thoughts being the basis of reality are the foundation of metaphysical science, like Kabbalah, which to you, is nonsense. - PS
Kabbalah - becasue Scientologists need somebody to laugh at.
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Witness My Fury
Oooooh, it's funny watching die hard conspiracy theorists flailing around in their own excrement. It's very reaffirming to see, so thanks!
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NewChapter
LOL The Old World Order is paying EP to troll us.
But you sir, are just an animal.
Tears are eeking out of my eyes now. At least he referred to this animal as sir. That's okay, I've called my dog "your majesty" before. Although I meant it ironically---still, there is precedence.
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tec
Having a scientific conversation involves developing a better understanding of the rules if one doesn't know them. I've barely scratched the surface myself, and I'm sure most of us here are still learning. On the other hand, if you refuse to even attempt to learn the rules and apply them, you are choosing -not- to communicate using the scientific protocol. If that is your choice, I was asking what your alternate protocol is for communicating what you mean by "spirit."
Just sharing my thoughts; just having a conversation. No communication protocol other than that, lol.
However, since so many need to see something in a scientific way in order to truly consider it, then I might look into the science of it more, and scientific method. To communicate more easily with them.
But I also know I can't prove anything with science, because the science isn't here yet. It's all theories and emergent ideas/sciences. Those things are just showing how some teachings formerly thought to be superstitious nonsense, are possible. That is what I find facinating.
Peace,
Tammy
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cofty
Those things are just showing how some teachings formerly thought to be superstitious nonsense are possible
Eh? For example?
Why do you speak about science as if it is a secret world that belongs to others? Its nothing more than a disciplined way of investigating the world.
Believers don't trust this way of doing things because it doesn't allow us to take flights of fancy seriously.
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strymeckirules
EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T BELIEVE IN THE SPIRIT REALM --
BUY THE THETA SLEEP MEDITATION CD'S AND GIVE US A REVIEW.
YOU SHOULDN'T BE SCARED OF THEM. THEY ARE JUST CD'S. RIGHT?
PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS.
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AGuest
Dang. Tried to walk away (peace to you all!), but I can't just let you gang up on my dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!) as you're doing. Even more, in the manner you're doing. It's like a glut of "Mr. Joneses" have come out of the matrix, trying to drag folks back.
It's a shame that you think that going backwards in human knowledge and technology and critical thinking is a good thing.
I know you weren't addressing me, dear one EP (peace to you and good to see you, dear one!)... but I have to say that my Lord IS recorded (for those who don't have ears... yet... and so need to see the "evidence" that he did so) as having said ... "Unless you turn around and become like young children, you will BY NO MEANS enter into the kingdom of the heavens." Now, I get that some might interpret this to mean "go to heaven," but I don't think so. Children "see" what adults do not... primarily because they haven't been tainted by the emipircal, yet, so as to have their [other] senses dulled. Of course, children are, well, children... and so idjits... and what they thing/perceive should be of absolutely NO account to us "adults."
The problem we have here ( and I guess in general ) is an initial silly idea ( or ideological package ) which has been accepted at some point ( almost always as a child )
See what I mean? Dear Q (peace to you, as well... and here we [might] go again, dear one - LOLOL!) "proves" my point (in case you all need more "evidence"): we consider children to be silly. I.e., idjits. Even "foolish," yes? And there is certainly NO place in this world for idjits, the silly, or foolish. Thing is... we're not talking about THIS world... are we?
Tec and Shelby cheat using exactly the same method that creationists use. It goes something like this... "There is a lot of stuff that science doesn't know yet - therefore my theory is just as valid as yours."
Well, looking at the definition of "theory", dear Cofty (peace... and good health... to you!), I can't see anything wrong with that:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theory
People come up with theories all the time. Your position is that a theory MUST be of a scientific nature and thus scientifically/empirically proven. However, that is not necessarily true. It is... as to the theory of SCIENCE... but not all theories are scientific. While every theory may not be AS valid as every other, EVERY theory is valid... until it is proven that it ISN'T.
Jeffro - I get the feeling that 'Liz' might have been here simply to promote the website they mentioned in their third(?) post.
That's quite possible, dear Jeffro (peace to you, too!). I don't think that was the ONLY reason, however, based on my exchanges with her (and she is a her).
'believers' rush in with retorts
Well, the post was addressed TO "believers", if you cared to take note. The OP didn't ask whether you BELIEVED in evil spirits; it aske what to DO about them. From a believer and so, logically, TO believers. So, actually, it was not the believers who rushed in... or retorted. Here, it was the NON-believers who "rushed in"... and with "retorts." While some offered advice from a place of concern and sincerity, most offered sarcasm, ridicule, and disdain. For some reason, though, non-believers never seem to see that it is they who do this.
Personally, I think such responses are even more "dangerous" than those who took the OP seriously and with empathy... and responded so... whether for her to seek medical care or to deal with her perceived dilemma from a spiritual vantage point. Because I can IMAGINE that a professional would have said the things some of you did to someone seeking their help. Can you imagine? Dear Liz (the greatest of love and peace to you, if you are still "watching"!) takes "your" advice, rings up a professional... and he/she says, "You're delusional! There are NO such thing as spirits and you need to STOP believing in that melarkey!" I think someone would lose their license... or put it at great risk.
claiming 'but you can't explain it'
I don't think that's the case, at all. Perhaps, "I can't explain it the way YOU need/want me to," or "I can explain it, but YOU can't get/receive/except the explanation," or "I can explain it, I have... many times... so that you don't get it is on you," is actually the case. Some of us have actually offered to show others "evidence." Very (very) few have taken us up on that offer, however.
(even though there are bunch of valid explanations, as already indicated),
Valid... by your standards, perhaps. But "your" standards aren't controlling here, unfortunately. "Your" standards pertain to the physical world - this matter wasn't/isn't about the physical world. So, in order to explain it, one has to apply the standards of the world which it pertains to. Not sure why you and others are unwilling to accept/entertain that truth.
and they go off on psuedo-scientific tangents about 'spirits' 'maybe' being 'energy' or whatever crackpot theory they happen to adhere to.
Well, but you guys kind of force them to (although I'm not sure how wise it is for them to let you). You are forcing those who believe to explain in terms you ACCEPT... rather than the terms that are TRUE and ACCURATE... which terms you CANNOT accept. It's the same thing as a father trying to explain, say, sex, to a 4-year-old. He has to try and do so in terms the child will understand... versus what a "Human Sexuality" professor might use. But that's only because the child cannot perceive what a professor might explain in technical terms. Doesn't mean the father's explanation is wrong or false - it's just "elementary". That you (and others) can no longer grasp things that ARE elementary... and/or told in elementary terms... is on who?
You want the "advanced" explanation/theory/proof. But you've been told that such may not exist, yet. So what? Prior to the voyage around the earth, some theorized that the earth was NOT flat, but round. Of course, the STANDARD said it was flat. The perception was that it was flat. And... until it was PROVEN round... the LAW was that it was flat. But... regardless of when it was proven... and how... it was indeed round (okay, "spherical"). Were those who didn't have the money, backing, ships, instruments, even language... to PROVE it round... but theorized that it was not flat wrong?
Finally, dear, dear tec... again, the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one! Do not worry that some don't understand what you're trying to share with them. As our Lord is recorded to have said, "Looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it." And we know why, dear one: they have not acquired "eyesalve". No point, then, in trying to give sight to the blind... who wish to remain blind. They cannot SEE what is not evident to the flesh... although there is so much, much more beyond that... because they don't WANT to. And we should understand that: how many have taught lies... and used fear... with regard to these matters?
Those, too, have accomplished the purpose of their "father": through their lies, false teachings/misunderstandings/misinterpretations... and use of these to foment fear-mongering... they have "shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men." These CAN'T go in. If you and I had allowed ourselves to remain angry, bitter, cynical, etc., however, because of what some others TRIED to teach us about these matters, we, too, would probably be fully skeptical... and unable to "enter", as well. Praise JAH... that has not occurred for US.
You continue to do what the Spirit leads/directs YOU to do, here, my dear one. Sometimes, though, it's best to leave folks in their darknessl. Especially if they don't WANT to come out of it.
Again, I bid you ALL peace!
YOUR servant... and a slave of Christ,
SA, who thinks "differently" because she HEARS and SEES differently, which she LOVES and would NEVER give up... so as to start thinking INSIDE some "box"... ANY "box"... ever again. May those with ears to hear... start listening OUTSIDE the "box"... that is the physical realm!
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tec
I have seen that site before. It talks about standing waves, a very well known phenomena that we currently take advantage of via technology today. As far as I can tell, the "standing wave theory" is really more of an untestable idea that hypothesises all matter and energy
came into being via standing waves in space. Of course, they never mention how this happened or what the source of energy is keeping the waves standing, therefore it must be God. And no one has ever observed these waves in space or can measure them or anything else.
See, I understood that something is solid (matter) when the waves are 'standing'. (or we perceive it as solid, if that is how are five senses are capable of perceiving anything) If those waves 'move' again, then that 'solid' matter is moving energy again, and not visible. I thought of the human body, and the 'putting on/taking off the flesh'.
I never heard or read or understood anything about standing waves in space. Just that waves (standing or moving) affect the solidity of an object. Or our perception of the solidity of that object, based on the limitations of our own physical senses.
So I'm not sure if conversion is accurate. Perhaps just a shift from a standing to a moving wave.
Keep in mind that the energy contained in a single pound of matter is equivalent to almost 10 megatons of TNT. Let's say the average human weighs 180 lbs, in that case we have a conversion of 170 lbs to energy is almost 1800 megatons of TNT. The largest nuclear
device ever tested released about 50 megatons. That's the type of conversion that has to be utterly undetectable, a conversion of matter to energy almost 35 times more energetic than the largest nuclear bomb ever detonated.
You know how we used to have computers and hard drives that were enormous, and as technology got more sophisticated, we got that down to the size of... well, whatever fits into macs, and iphones, etc? I would see it like that.
As far as putting off and on our flesh, ifI am understanding you correctly, the idea is that we are converting out matter to spirit (energy).
Like I said, I don't know if conversion accurate.
If that is the case and what you are suggesting, then the spirit is always there.
Yes.
What need for the conversion then?
Not conversion... more of a learning to shift from a standing wave, to a moving one. We can't do that. We are trapped; tied to the flesh (solid). We don't have the knowledge or the ability. For now.
If we are converting our matter to energy, then there must be some type of energy left behind as a placeholder. If damage to our physical bodies can change the way our spirit expresses itself, why couldn't we convert some of the energy in our hair or toenails or skin
to new brain matter exactly as it was before it was damaged?
When we can do it, then I think we will be able to do this (or something similar). Hence, no more death, or irreperable damage to anything, or sickness, or aging, etc.
That seems trivial enough if we can convert our entire body to energy and then back again exactly as it was before, especially if we have a placeholder spirit.
Or if that spirit is no longer tied down, or trapped as something solid. Yes.
Anyway, my understanding is just a glimpse into how the promises are possible. How the teachings of Christ are possible. I trusted them before... I just had no idea of the 'how' behind them. This understanding gave me a glimpse into that. Just a glimpse. Enough for me; and perhaps others who have faith in Christ. Probably not enough to build any sort of accepted scientific theory or hypothesis upon, though...yet. Could even be something altogether different. But don't most theories start out as a glimpse, a possibility, then build into more?
Peace,
Tammy