Atheism 2.0

by Qcmbr 384 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety
    I asssume you have not read "The Moral Landscape"?

    Sam Harris' morality?

    Throughout Harris can barely curb his enthusiasm for George Bush's 'war on terror', announcing gleefully that "we are at war against Islam" – not at war against violent extremists, mind you, but against the very "vision of life prescribed to all Muslims in the Koran." He finds tortured justifications for torturing suspected terrorists in America's gulag. He goes further: "some propositions are so dangerous that it may even be ethical to kill people for believing them.... Certain beliefs place their adherents beyond the reach of every peaceful means of persuasion, while inspiring them to commit acts of extraordinary violence against others."

    This doesn't sound very scientific to me, Cofty:

    I would have no argument with Harris if he were only recommending spiritualism as means for mindful relaxation. Indeed many wise mystics have realised that the mystical experience does not confer existential status on its content but can be enjoyed and valued for the experience itself. Unfortunately Harris loads spiritual practices with metaphysical baggage. While he tries to distance himself from the more extravagant fads, he ends up endorsing fundamental New Age assumptions as rational alternatives to traditional religiosity.
    He celebrates the growing popularity of western and eastern occult traditions, everything from "shamanism, Gnosticism, Kabbalah, Hermetism and its magical Renaissance spawn (Hermeticism) and all the other Byzantine paths whereby man has sought the Other in every guise of its conception." He rejects a naturalistic understanding of nature and the human mind and sets consciousness free from such mortal things as brains and bodies, allowing the possibility of pan-psychism, the doctrine of immanence of awareness or consciousness throughout the universe. For someone studying to be a neuroscientist, Harris holds rather unconventional views. He scoffs at the physicalism of the mainstream of scientists who believe that our mental and spiritual lives are wholly dependent upon the workings of the brain. He gives full credence to reports of near death experience and leaves open the possibility that a disembodied soul can survive the death of the body, claiming that we don't know what happens after death. After denying that consciousness is a product of our physiology, he presents it as a fundamental ingredient of nature, "a far more rudimentary phenomenon than living creatures and their brains." This is nothing but good old spiritual monism, the first principle of all New Age beliefs. The problem is not that Harris holds these beliefs, but that he wants to convince us that they are the very height of rationality.

    http://newhumanist.org.uk/973

  • jay88
    jay88

    I agree with Terry that atheism is just an overinflated opinion.

    ..........................................................

    This statement is wrong on so many levels,...but I'm sure the person who made this statement was looking in the mirror while typing.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    This statement is wrong on so many levels,...but I'm sure the person who made this statement was looking in the mirror while typing.

    There is a slight reflection in my screen so I cannot deny what you have said.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    jay88, in your opinion does science lead to atheism?

    -Sab

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Another way to look at it is that atheism has the same advantage that skepticism generally does. When we refrain from

    adopting beliefs and accepting claims which lack adequate support, it is less likely that we will be cheated, tricked,

    or made fools of. It’s no guarantee, but it is a good method for maintaining intellectual and personal integrity and for

    preventing religious hucksters from taking advantage of us.

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety

    Cofty, Sam Harris believes in psychic phenomena and reincarnation.

    http://www.skepdic.com/news/newsletter74.html

    http://www.alternet.org/story/46196/

    The best-selling author of "The End of Faith" may argue against Christianity, but he is also supportive of phenomena such as reincarnation and ESP, and calls for "compassionately killing" the "Muslim hordes."

    Sam Harris's books "The End Of Faith" and "Letter To A Christian Nation" have established him as second only to the British biologist and author Richard Dawkins in the ranks of famous 21st century atheists. The thrust of Harris's best-sellers is that with the world so crazed by religion, it's high time Americans stopped tolerating faith in the Rapture, the Resurrection and anything else not grounded in evidence. Only trouble is, our country's foremost promoter of "reason" is also supportive of ESP, reincarnation and other unscientific concepts. Not all of it is harmless yoga class hokum -- he's also a proponent of waterboarding and other forms of torture.

    End of faith?

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    A believer believes in God therefore with God comes the Power of God. So a believer can't rightly say he might be wrong. Because to say God, therefore the power of God might not be real is putting doubt on it. When doubt is added to belief it neutralizes it.

    It's like saying God is my friend, but I can't be certain that He is.

    But on the other hand, why can't an atheist leave room in his imagination for the possibility, though slight, let's say smaller than an ant poop, that the believer might be right?

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    Watched the TEDtalks and thought I would be commenting about that. . . Seemed like de Botton is calling for atheism to utilize some of the social/cultural advantages religion has. Again, I think humanism is a good place to start. We're all in this together.

    As far as the "language of thought": although 99% of people will self-report thinking in terms of words or images, it is really unclear if either is truly the case. Although there is nothing conclusive, our brains may only be giving us the illusion of thinking in sentences and imagining scenes. The actual language of thought going on may be much more abstract.

    And remember language is not just a matter of words or sentences; it is also art, music, gesture etc. . .

  • jay88
    jay88

    From Sab: In your opinion does science lead to atheism?

    .........................................................................................................

    Snake oil salemen used "supposed science" to sell their product. Before the industrial age, those on ships used landmarks and the stars etc... to help them navigate.

    I guess what I am getting at is, I don't know what you mean by science.

    Science to a snake oil salemen = sell product

    Science to a sailor = to know where he is

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    I think this discussion is very valuable because I freely confess that it's actually very difficult for me to express what atheism means to me in a satisfactory but concise manner but I suspect that is partially because I am so , relatively , new to it and wider society has not discussed it as thoroughly as it has religion ergo the ideas are not universally familiar. This forum is 95% of my proving ground for atheist thought since it is such an uncomfortable topic in my religious family and amongst my Mormon friends. If religion taught me anything is to see philosophy as combative , shared thought as sermon and influence as supernatural warfare between light and dark.

    Today I read some of PZ Myers thoughts on atheism and it put a new spin on the pointlessness of traducing ideas to black and white, there needs to be a story , a prize won through effort rather than simply a label. In short , in his view - which i find quite persuasive - atheism is earned just as is religion. This then leads us to avoid labelling the religious as merely foolish or atheists as merely rational ( or vice versa depending on which side of the church door you stand .) In that spirit I would call myself an atheist but a very new one though my two years of study got me here. I feel happier that i've at least done something to earn the title but now comes the challenge. What follows, is the tag atheist now a less useful definition that has had its day ( and is still necessary when I find myself in a religious context ) and needs to now be supplanted by some more exciting tags ( my wife thinks I've sailed past 'sexy' without stopping lol ) so I can define my philosophy in more positive ways, humanist is definitely a good one, philanthropist.. The scary thing about any new privileged tags is they encourage positive action, it's not possible to be philanthropic and do nothing. It is much easier to be an atheist as it seems potentially very passive.

    Which leads back to my original post...what does one do with freedom once it's been won and what actions do you take to make sure you don't lose personal gains thereafter? Atheism 2.0?

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