for the past few years Gift Aid is the only thing that is keeping some congregations going. fact!
UK POSTERS UNITE! Get as many to sign our petition as possible...
by cedars 154 Replies latest members politics
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venetian
The flyers do work! I again spotted the Witnesses nearby and decided to get ahead of their territory coverage. I posted the flyers and one of the householders opened the door as it went thru his letterbox. He smiled and said how he loves debating with JW's as he ties them in knots
(Thats what HE thinks )
Anyway, he is VERY interested in the contents of the flyer and hadn't a clue about their charity status, their shunning policy or their pedophile policy. He didn't see any real benefit to the community from JW's and didnt see why they should have charitable status. We talked briefly about the org and I highlighted my experience with them. He then thanked me for the flyer and said he would be happy to sign the petition.
Would LOVE to be a fly on the wall when the Witnesses reach that street!
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soft+gentle
honestly as much as I would like to see this issue debated in the house of commons I cannot see it happening. The simple fact is that Jehovahs witnesses are a religion and this fact alone qualifies them as being of public benefit. Even if you got 500,000 signatures I cannot see politicians taking up this issue - particularly as Britain is not a pluralistic country - Anglicanism is the state religion. Minority religions are very protected. I don't think the e-petition is automatic once 100,000 signatures have been achieved. The signatures may bring it to their attention but then Politicians still have to decide to debate it
there is another related issue that would stand a good chance of being taken up to be debated in the house of commons and which would generate public interest and which has also frequently been aired on here - it is the issue of sending high risk pedophiles in the door to door work. I would raise an e-petition regarding this if I did not have to maintain anonymity and if I was not concerned about generating panic.
But the e-petition would address the following issue:
Because Jehovahs witnesses make the door to door work an item of worship, which even paedophiles must engage in, it would be easy to prove to the public and to the house of commons (once the petitiion got there) that this feature is not in the public interest and therefore needs addressing. jehovahs witnesses would never restrict pedophiles themselves as they have put themselves in a bind by saying they cannot prevent an individual from engaging in their freedom of worship and they would also admit this if questioned by politicians. Therefore they require the government to intervene.
the whole issue could be framed in a way that suggests we have the interests of Jehovahs witnesses at heart (which I do, of indivdual witnesses anyway, in the spirit of freedom of worship that is) but that we are also concerned about dangers to the public. there have been several court cases that highlight this danger to the public. In a recent case the judge said that the pedophile must never engage in volunteer work. Jehovhas witnesses, despite saying to the charity commission that their work is voluntary work, in practice say that the ministry ( the door to door work) is part of worship.
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Phizzy
I do not agree that protection is automatic for a religion, there is a Jedi religion, if it could not show public benefit I doubt very much if they would get Charitable Status.
Is the Tax refund system designed and approved just to subsidise the proseletysing work of religions that necessarily take away support from the Established Church when they have success ? I do not think so.
To pour cold water on this campaign is pointless, it may not get any where, but let us try our damndest.
You know, Softy, that the WT is a total sham and is fraudulantly claiming that it performs charitable works.
I agree that a concerted campaign is needed to deal with the paedophile problem, not just the DtoD bit, though that needs addressing ASAP, but they still do not have an active programme to protect the vulnerable in the K.H and in other activities. They have a Policy, but they do not have in place what even small institutions and groups have, someone, upon each occasion they meet, who is responsible for the care and protection of the vulnerable.
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Flat_Accent
Has anyone posted on some other sites? The National Secular Society was involved with the recent prayer ban in council meetings, so getting them involved could help us out a great deal. They have some contact details on their site - http://www.secularism.org.uk/contact.html
So does the British Humanist Association - http://www.humanism.org.uk/contact
We could all send these groups e-mails, get them involved with the petition and give it a real voice!
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venetian
I hear what you're saying Soft+gentle. At the end of the year whether there will be enough signatures to trigger a debate remains to be seen. But I'm of a mind that any legal avenue to bring the real doctrines of the WT and its policies to the attention of the wider public is worth exploring.
And I believe that if we are determined to use the avenues available to us, then ultimately only a wider awareness can result.
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soft+gentle
venetian, legal avenues are very expensive. lawyers have to pore over WT rhetoric to extract how to proceed. hundreds of man hours costing thousands. who has that kind of money?
But I accept what you guys are trying to do here - it gives us focus too
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venetian
Soft.
Not all legal avenues are. This epetition didn't cost anything to set up and could do alot of good. Rather than be too sceptical at its inception, lets just see what can be achieved with it.
This hasn't reached the lawyer stage yet, not even close, so lets just take one step at a time and see what good we can do with what is available to us.
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soft+gentle
venetian i thought you were referring to the court system. to me the e-petition is political not legal. I agree that politics is the way forward and that there is no personal financial outlay.
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cedars
soft+gentle:
Jehovahs witnesses are a religion and this fact alone qualifies them as being of public benefit.
Scientology is also a "religion" (at least in other countries), and yet it has failed to meet the criteria for public benefit in this country, and is denied charitable status.
If you had read my blog article on the subject, you would hopefully have seen that Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy charitable status because they have issued statements to the charity commission that are either misleading or downright untruthful. The charity commission effectively allows religious organisations to regulate themselves when it comes to public benefit criteria, and it is this practice (in part) that the petition flags as being an area of concern.
Just because an organisation is followed as a religion, this does not mean that its beliefs and practices should not be periodically reviewed to see whether the religion as a whole is truly working in the public benefit. Scientology is a good example of how lines can be drawn in this regard. The petition is purely for the relevant authorities to look into this issue more closely. Whether they take any action or not (or even debate the matter) is down to them, but they are more likely to do something if we get up off our arses and take action.
Cedars