Now there is a skill!
Doesn't text me for what feels like ages, then I get back online and start posting again, and he suddenly texts me....
If he is reading this; I am glad he is here and glad he is reading!
In love with a JW...
by CuriousUK 156 Replies latest social relationships
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nugget
For jws love is a more complex thing than for most people. Their status in the faith is also dependent on their choice of spouse and style of courtship. In order to do well a man must marry a woman of good standing in the religion, the courtship should be above reproach and the couple must be chaperoned at all times. If the relationship falls short of the ideal then the man is seen as spiritually weak and will not be able to progress in the faith. This means that dating a "worldly" person I.E. someone who is not a jw leads to all sorts of internal conflict.
For jws being part of and belonging to the group is key to them. The groups approval is an essential part of their life and sometimes attachments will be sacrificed to gain acceptance from the group. There are always 3 elements to any of their relationships and not all have equal status. Any non believer is at the bottom and is in a vulnerable position. Dating an unbeliever is being disloyal to god, it is the unbeliever who is the source of the problem and it is they who are blamed for the problems the jw encounters. This is partly why he shuts you out when he considers the impact of your relationship on his life. As an unbeliever it will not occur to him to discuss this with you since your opinion can have no bearing on his decision.
So his love is not a meeting of equals but a decision you have no part in. He is not intentionally cruel but highly conditioned.
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CuriousUK
Thanks for explaining further Nugget... It just seems very very sad that it must be for young JWs who know no different... I suppose I have a hope that some sort of miracle will occur and he will find his way out for me.... Sadly this is real life and not a romantic film with a happy ending...
I have sent him a very long email tonight, not directly talking about this issue, but just explaining from the heart about how I actually feel about the confusion (without blaming him). I just hope part of the message will get past all the conditioning and brainwashing and actually through to the real man that I know...
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dozy
Just read through these posts.
The only thing I would add would be cautious with this guy. He sounds like he has more baggage than Heathrow's left luggage department! The JW stuff doesn't help either. I 'm sure he is a lovely guy but just take it easy here.
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ilikecheese
I'm in a similar boat to you. I've been dating an unbaptized JW for a few years now. He's kind of a different case, though. He's never been fully convinced of it, he doesn't think they're infallible at all, he only started going when his mother did (he was 12 or so), his congregation is fairly open, his family knows about me and I've met them all, and none of his extended family or his dad are JWs. He even has a few baptized younger friends who know about me. Since he's not the brainwashed type or anything, I really think there's a good chance he will leave. He's said a bunch of times that he doesn't think he could get baptized because he doesn't want to be disfellowshipped if he decides to leave. He also openly admits the problems they have. His main thing just comes back to "they're the only ones who preach and are really living right." It's totally not true, and I've gotten him to concede a few points, but meh. We also have Bible discussions fairly regularly, and while he doesn't believe Jesus is God or divine, he admits my viewpoints have scriptural backing. And he's gotten to agree with me about disfellowshipping being wrong.
With the two of us, though, we're young enough that I'm not immediately wanting marriage. I think people should wait til at least closer to 30. Those marriages tend to last longer. And while we've never given each other an ultimatum, it's well known that if we don't end up seeing eye to eye on religion, we won't get married. He's basically my best friend, though, so I don't mind sticking with him a few more years even if it doesn't lead to marriage. And I would TOTALLY recommend coming to this website and looking at the sheer insanity anytime you think of becoming a JW or at least tolerating the lifestyle. Or just read their literature. It's not the same as a Catholic marrying a Baptist or something. Heck, even Mormons are more open minded. It is a completely different lifestyle, and one that's marginally cuckoo. The people may be lovely, but they're encouraged to lead a life that's not all that lovely. If you need anyone to talk to and commiserate over your predicament, feel free to PM me anytime.
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jgnat
Sorry about the rubber e-mail account, CuriousK. I have been following your thread with interest, hoping for the best for you.
You met your two men on your last date. The first is the genuine man, the second, the put-on cult personality. This is explained very well in Steve Hassan's book, Combatting Cult Mind Control. I dearly wish that I had understood Hassan's concepts before I tried to take on the cultic aspects of my husband's personality. For those who are intimate with cultists, the abrupt switch from one personality is terrifying! Push a cultist too far and the natural personality literally evaporates before your eyes.
By way of example, I was having an intimate conversation with my husband today and in attempt to reassert his conscience, he began discussingthis week's book study with me (something to do with Paul and his tent-making). My ardour immediately cooled and I scolded him, telling him I will not tolerate inviting the elders in to bed with us. He laughed at my feminine fury and agreed.
I've bolded the natural conversation, and italicized the cultic. From long experience, I can now flip my hubby out of cultic mode, by addressing his basic nature. Plain old humor works well with him.
I can also have natural conversations with other Jehovah's Witnesses, as long as I don't talk about their religion. I talk about their hobbies and interests.
As I much prefer having genuine conversations, I generally avoid talking to a Jehovah's Witness about their religion at all.
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palmtree67
JGNAT: I'm sure you'll check this thread again, and I just wanted to say how much I admire your approach with your husband. I've read many of your posts about your relationship, and I am always impressed with how you are able to discuss issues without lessening his dignity as a person. You are probably the best thing that ever happened to him.
Palm
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CuriousUK
Many thanks for replying jgnat... It is so interesting to hear about it from your point of view, and I will certainly check out that link you provided...
And thank you ilikecheese - I might well drop you a PM :)
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satinka
Here is a reason I left the JWs after being born and raised into it:
http://hey-whichwayisup.blogspot.ca/2011/05/depression-suicide-and-religion.html
satinka
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jgnat
Hey, CuriousK and Palmtree.
CuriousK, again I wish you the best. Remember that all relationships take two. Your man seems to be blinking on and off like a strobe light. He is going to have to figure out what he wants if you have any hope of a future. Take care not to scare his cultic side further in to the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Palmtree, that is very nice for you to say. At his core, I know that hubby enjoys me just the way I am. I got him to admit it to him the other day, after I got fed up with his little hints and nudges that I get more involved in the meetings. I told him if I was a good Jehovah's Witness wife, I'd be boring! He quietly, gently agreed. That was the natural man talking.
Nevertheless, I can guarantee the next time he is alone with Jehovah's Witnesses, he will bemoan his divided household, the fellow cultists will commisserate, an they will console themselves that I will come around one day. That's the cultists talking amongst themselves.