Ahhhhh
It was all 'speculative fact'
I understand now.
Is the Watchtower shy about repeating their new "generation" teaching?
by slimboyfat 245 Replies latest jw friends
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djeggnog
@Black Sheep wrote:
Gawd. You really could be any one of a number of my family members who play the game of pretending to comprehend whatever they want, regardless of the [grammar], context, source, or intention of the author, in order to pretend that the image of the Watchtower that they are trying to paint is not contradicted by their own church documents. Current, or past.
@djeggnog wrote:
You being so judgmental of your family members reminds me of something that Jesus said to one of his apostles -- to Peter -- after Jesus had just signified to him the manner in which Peter would die, prompting Peter to ask Jesus about first cousin, John, "What will this man do?" Peter want to know what was going to happen to John. Jesus told Peter in reply: "What concern is that to you?" and told Peter a second time to, "Continue following me." (John 21:18-23)
@Black Sheep wrote:
There was nothing judgemental in what I said. It was an observation of their behaviour. You can see their behaviour any way you want.
Ok.
@djeggnog wrote:
Even if it were true and you have good reason to believe that your own family members only pretend to comprehend the things that they read in the Watchtower or all of our other publications "current ... or past," what is that to you?
@Black Sheep wrote:
They can do whatever they want when I'm not around, but when they try to recruit me by deceiving me as to what your church teaches, past or present, they make it my business.
Ok.
@Ucantnome wrote:
I think that this is different to the Good News that the apostle was preaching but maybe I'm wrong.
@djeggnog wrote:
Yes, it is different. The Proclaimers book is not discussing the good news from the standpoint of what was being preached during the first century AD, but discussing the good news from the standpoint of what was being preached during the 20th century when it first became apparent, in 1925, that the Messianic Kingdom had been born, that Christ had begun to rule and that Satan had but only a short period of time remaining. The point being made is that this was good news to Jehovah's Witnesses back in 1925, and that this good news in particular also needed to be proclaimed as well. Get it now? In case you didn't know, the Proclaimers book is a diary that relates the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses leading up to when the good news began to be proclaimed as to the establishment of God's kingdom in 1914.
@Ucantnome wrote:
Was this the good news?
Yes. The good news teaches that God’s kingdom by Christ will bring all things on earth into perfect unity with the holy heavens and establish peace between God and man and lasting peace on earth, which is what was being preached during the first century AD, but the establishment of the Messianic Kingdom during the 20th century AD was good news that needed to be proclaimed as well.
@castthefirststone:
By your own admission there is evidence of speculation found in the food distributed by the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Therefore if speculation exists in the publications, how can an uneducated person, like myself, distinguish between fact and speculation?
I suppose you could ask a question as to whether what you read or heard is fact or speculation. When you want to know whether the meat sold at the meat market was freshly cut, or whether the fish being sold at the seafood market was freshly caught, you would typically ask a question, would you not? But if you wanted to know if the answer you receive is fact or fiction, would you not ask whether what you were told was fact or speculative?
Even with the Simplified English version of the Watchtower I find it very hard to know when our John Class are handing out proper food and when it's speculative food. So please help me by explaining it to me.
Exactly how would you suggest I do this?
@Black Sheep:
It is just a generic JW, using generic JW tactics and logic. The only difference is that this one ignores the WT advice not to engage with opposers.
What "tactics" do I use and whose "advice" do I ignore?
We are his/her friends. He/she just hasn't worked that out yet.
I do have friends, but none of them are cyberfriends, @Black Sheep.
@Bubblegum Apotheosis:
This thread would not have been enjoyable without djegg, he is not calling anyone "apostates" is he?
I don't know who here are apostates. I am the only one that can make that judgment, but if, as I've said many times in the past on here, @Simon would declare JWN to be an apostate website, then I would have no choice, but to withdraw from participation in any of the threads here, which would mean that @Simon would have rescinded his invitation to post to his website. The ability to post messages to JWN is a privilege that @Simon has extended to me and I realize that I have no right to post messages here and that he can rescind this privilege at will.
Jesus preached to the Pharisees, [Sadducees] and Scribes, knowing only a few were going to listen. Some Bible scholars teach Jesus Christ preached to the demons, after rising from the dead (Peter). Djegg knows about JWN's ability to [attack] wide [groups] of [individuals], with various personal likes and dislikes, [which] makes this site so addictive.
I will exchange posts with anyone, provided that aren't trolling me by posting gripes about matters having nothing at all to do with the topic of a thread and posting messages to me for the express purpose of derailing a thread.
If djegg is a troll, what benefit is he gaining by sharing his Bible views and areas he agrees with the Organization? , Djegg has not retreated like most unread dubs, is it possible he likes us?
All things are "possible," @Bubblegum Apotheosis, and I suppose it's possible that I like some of you here on JWN, but it's more likely that I enjoy exchanging posts with others here.
I fear we are over using the word "Apostate" and turning it into "Shibboleths".
That was funny!
@Vidqun:
If I want to speculate, I will keep the word "fact" as far as possible from my speculative piece. That's the logical thing to do. Let's call it a slip of the pen then, it's actually a "speculative fact".
Whatever, but many of the articles that appear in our publications that contain misleading statements in them weren't intentionally designed to mislead anyone, but just weren't caught by the proofreaders before they were published. If you must, I'd agree that many of the interpretations that we have published in the past could be described as conjecture for we might not realize at the time that that a conclusion we have reached is based on incomplete facts. In the English language, there is no such thing as "speculative facts."
@Black Sheep:
It was all 'speculative fact'
I understand now.
This is a silly thing for you to have said, but there's no law against your being as silly as you want to be. You couldn't have been more imaginative and inserted a pic of Mike Myers' "Doctor Evil" (Austin Powers) in your post, instead of a pic of Dorothy and her friends in Oz? I'm surprised that you didn't give @OUTLAW a ring!
Have fun!@djeggnog
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00DAD
OK, I know I always say, don't feed the troll, but when I saw this I just couldn't help myself.
DJEggNog actually wrote:
but many of the articles that appear in our publications that contain misleading statements in them weren't intentionally designed to mislead anyone, but just weren't caught by the proofreaders before they were published.
I mean seriously WTF! Where was "holy spirit"? Taking a coffee break!
That is one of the LAMEST, STUPIDEST attempts at rationalizing and justifying the WTBTS's errors that I have ever heard.
Look, admit it, they (the writers of the WT and all its associated publications) don't know what they're talking about, they're guessing and they should all be bitch slapped for insisting that anyone follow their ridiculous, incoherent, inconsistent, not-properly-edited or proofread drivel.
That fact that the WT official policy is to disfellowship anyone that disagrees or even seriously question their ever-changing "theology" ought to be criminal.
DJEggie, you poor lad, were you dropped on your head as a child? You're seriously whacked in your thinking. I think the yolks on you my poor shelled one.
00DAD
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iCeltic
At least djeggnogg has a good sense of humor, I can't dent that.
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Bungi Bill
Chris,
If he isn't a troll, then he does a bloody good job of imitating one.
Still, if others enjoy being wound up, who am I to stop them!
Bill.
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Black Sheep
What "tactics" do I use...
Diversion, avoidance, denial, deception, character assassination, cherry picking, selective comprehension ..... a doppleganger for my family.
...and whose "advice" do I ignore?
WT May 15, 2012, simplelton edition, to be studied July 23-29.
Article entitled, "Are You Reflecting the Glory of Jehovah?"
Page 24
Question 13, Why must we hate sin? What will we do if we hate sin?
13 We should hate sin because Jehovah hates
it. If we hate sin,we will stay
as far away as possible from anything
that could make us sin. For example,
we must stay away from apostasy.
Those who become apostates no longer
glorify God. (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)
So we should completely avoid apostates
or anyone who says that he is a
brother but who is dishonoring God.
We should avoid them even if they are
family members. (1 Corinthians 5:11)
We gain no benefit in trying to prove
that apostates and others who criticize
Jehovah’s organization are wrong.
In fact, we should not even want to
know what they say, whether it is in
their literature or on the Internet, because
this could damage our relation-
ship with Jehovah.—Read Isaiah 5:20; Matthew 7:6.When the study conductor asks you for your comment, what will you say?
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Black Sheep
JWs should be encouraged to make asses of themselves and their church in public Bill.
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Ucantnome
Djeggnog, I said,
This good news of the kingdom spoken of in Matthew 24 was that the sign of Matthew 24:30 had been seen along with the composite sign and the generation that saw this would see the start of the tribulation. But it didn't happen. Or am I wrong Djeggnog?
You said
Yes, I have the unpleasant burden of telling you that, in my opinion, you are wrong, @Ucantnome, but please don't let this get you down. Most of the things I have read on JWN are imprecise or just plain wrong, and we cannot all of us be me
This is what I meant. It was 1971 the period of time of the book and Watchtower that I quoted from. A time that we were told the generation of 1914 would not pass away.
In the 1966 Watchtower page 215 it says,
"But before Jesus died he told his disciples of an even better good news that would be proclaimed on a world wide scale"
"But notice that Jesus was talking about the time of the end, when he said: "THIS good news of the kingdom will be preached." Yes, the good news of the King at hand would again be preached, meaning that the Kingdom had been obtained by the King and that he had returned to exercise Kingdom power."
In the same Watchtower on page 38 talking what the "sign of the son of man" is in Matthew 24:30 it says,
"It is that act of God's Son in receiving authority from his Sovereign Father to rule in an everlasting kingdom. This event brought the establishment or "birth" of his kingly rule. (See also Revelation12:1,2,5,10)
On page 216 of the same Watchtower,
"There is a second urgent reason why all perosn who belong to a religion of Christendom should give more than the usual attention to this good news of the kingdom being preached.That reason is that there is a judgement message that accompanies the good news"
I dont think I was wrong Djeggnog.
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ziddina
"...but many of the articles that appear in our publications that contain misleading statements in them weren't intentionally designed to mislead anyone, but just weren't caught by the proofreaders before they were published...." DJeggnogg
So, what does that say about the Governing Body members who review, approve of and sign off on each and every article???
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castthefirststone
So what you are saying djeggnog is that the master master slave was sleeping while certain other master slaves were running ahead?
Wow my poor uneducated brain can't handle this. First there is speculation in the spiritual food being distributed and now the food is not checked by the masters of the masters of the banquet, and turds are slipping through.
It really is all very confusing and I think it's best to steer clear from the doctrinal roulette that is being played by the Faithfull and Discreet Slave and their irresponsible, lazy and sleeping Governing Body. As others have noted fortunately the food dispenser is being choked to only dispense half the food therefore the poor uneducated souls that still eats up this nonsense will have 50% less to digest.
