LOL Gladiator...that was brilliant!!
I'm sure it was on topic...
Hostile to atheists
by d 281 Replies latest members politics
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Qcmbr
Atheism is such a repressed meme in my family and friends that it is taking time to learn what that means. It's dead easy to criticise another view but very hard to analyse ones own. Read a good article regarding a view that we aren't as reasoned as we think we are, we make gut assertions and use our version of reason to justify them rather than ignoring our feelings and logically driving to a conclusion. We feel our answers rather than wait for the equation to be worked out. We leave our faith when it feels wrong rather than when the facts dictate that it is; reason is our post conclusion justification tool rather than our mental scalpel.
Atheism will gain much more acceptance with rising generation as they see today's pioneers stand up and sow the seeds of doubt where once only faith was allowed. The current generation were brought up questioning which faith was right while now the question has moved to 'is faith the problem?'
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NewChapter
Nicely written Q---as usual.
The motivation behind the Reason Rally this weekend was to get people to come out about their non-belief, so that we can see that there are so many of us. That many check the Christian box for reasons other than belief. He did go on to say that he didn't know if he believed the that the poll that said 40% of Americans didn't believe in evolution, which was kind of his point. He believes that many people are 'in the closet'.
So we just keep trudging along, encouraging others to put voice to their true self, and hopefully reason will prevail. We've reached a moment in history where belief will no longer pull us forward. It played it's role when there was no process to find the important answers. But it has become maladaptive. In the past faith was needed to give people a sense of power in an unknown world. Today such faith can hold back honest inquiry and search for real answers.
And frankly, we simply don't know where the great minds will be born. If they are born into a fundamentalist family, then the world will likely be deprived of their gift as they are pressured to reject scientific fact. So the less fundamentalists, the better chances for society to benefit from it's treasures. The only way to work against that is reason---so speaking up is important. People don't do well when they feel alone---we are social. So let's tell them that they are not alone. Maybe the next great scientist will shed superstition and myth and come shine for us.
NC
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Mary
I think there's hostility on both sides. I've seen atheists on this board be extremely hostile to anyone who dares believe in anything spiritual, and I've seen believers on here be hostile to atheists for not sharing their beliefs.
I think it can be particularly difficult for any ex-Witness to accept someone else's beliefs, simply because we were raised with the pre-conceived idea that "I'm-Right-and-everyone-else-is-wrong" and that can be a very difficult thing to overcome.
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THE GLADIATOR
Please don’t be alarmed - but I am attempting to post something - on topic.
It would appear that mystical thinking will impair the minds ability to think in a rational way. On the other hand it can help to open up communication with the part of our mind that is wrongly called unconscious.
Left brain thinking has helped to achieve many modern benefits, yet, right brain thinking is responsible for our emotional and intuitive thinking. It is this side of the brain that thinks outside of the box. Both are needed.
I am not opposed to mystical, religious, spiritual mind activity. As long as people with a bias either way show tolerance to each other, we can benefit from a richer and more balanced world that embraces both approaches to discovery and advancement. I am not religious or a person of faith but I still am predominately a right brain thinker and understand mystical thinking and its benefits in terms of creativity.
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NewChapter
Gladiator---accessing more of our thinking ability is a plus. Religion grows from our ability to think symbolically and creatively. Creative thinking is as important as critical thinking---I just kind of wish that some would channel such in a different direction. However I do recognize that some creative people are drawing on what they think is spiritual--although I think of it as creative--and perhaps they wouldn't know how to do something useful unless they worked within their context.
I think that is why I tolerate pagans so well. Creativity is the rule, and I love fantasy. I can be present for their things, and really enjoy them, but it's more like role play for me or something. The entire time I'm spinning stories, and my brain kicks into gear. And they don't mind--they don't try to convince me of anything.
When I was a bible believer, it crushed my creativity. I am a writer, and I found my brain could not flow where it needed to go because of all these external rules. I found this hard to control, and even quit writing for a while because I thought it was a weakness for me that I would end up writing something that was 'wrong'. I would destroy my writing. ---Maybe the next great American novel is sitting in a garbage dump somewhere.
And that is where the danger is, really. That some brilliant brain will be held in bondage because some things are wrong to think on. In Darwin's day, it would have been wrong to consider that we were living on earth through any means other than creation. That is still true for many people, so they won't even investigate the options.
NC
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THE GLADIATOR
NewChapter I agree with what you say. Organized religion, including fundamentalists and cults like Jehovah's Witnesses, do stifle freedom of thought and creative thinking.
On the other hand the more progressive Christian thinking that we see so much of now, could possibly encourage creativity. This could be why so many modern Christians seem to be inventing their beliefs as they go along on a need be basis. They would see this as divine communication or revelation. Such freedom of thought is forbidden in controlling religions and over time, can cause the mind to become brittle.
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NewChapter
This could be why so many modern Christians seem to be inventing their beliefs as they go along on a need be basis.
Indeed. It is interesting but confusing to watch. I've never seen such a thing in any other context---except fiction.
When I'm writing a story, the facts are all at my disposal and I can simply manipulate them to fit the needs of the plot. Does the character need to learn a lesson in compassion? I will strike them with a painful illness and put them in fear of their lives and force them to depend on others in a way that makes them extremely uncomfortable. What about the really good person that everyone loves that was cheated out of an inheritence? If I'm looking for some sense of justice, I'll let them find a lost piece of art in the attic of the house that was abandoned by their parents decades ago, and was the only piece of trash they got out of the inheritence they were cheated out of.
Does the character have a weakness that needs worked on? I will give that character every single opportunity available to get better. Patience a problem? Long lines, traffic jams, late friends, gratification delayed----yes----I will make that character suffer for the greater good. As the author I will laugh and make the situations more and more complex to reach the end I desire.
I'm a lot like god, and my stories work a lot like prayer.
NC
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THE GLADIATOR
Very impressive! What you are describing as you write a novel, takes place in real life. Whether people around us are hostile or kind is often a reaction to the signals we put out. Bit by bit we write our own lives and arrive where we intended to, even if we are not aware we are doing that.
All the best with your novels.
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NewChapter
True, but in real life, when I see someone rewriting their real story and their real characters to fit the narrative better, I have an incredibly hard time understanding the logic. You don't like that about god? Change it. Your prayer didn't get answered? Look at the plot and decide what elements were leading you to a better solution. It's an odd thing. So much belief is fluid and hard to pin down. Fundamentalists stick with the god created by others. Liberals create the god they need. They are great authors.
NC