by Theocratic Sedition 72 Replies latest jw friends
woods -
wasnt arguing about Alexander and pyramids being great or not...in fact i agree with that common 'opinion'...
now in regards to your question of micromanagement, yes, it sounds like it, but my question was does Captain feel HE is being micromanaged or others to their ill-effect?
captain -
your comparison (married couple) is not very appropiate being that you're implying that in such marriage there is no way out, while there is most certainly a 'way out' of this org.
The best part was the illustration of the bad boy greeting his friend with a fist bump.
Note the kid with skateboard, next to 'fist bump'. He is OVERWEIGHT.
Even if he comes into the 'truth' he will not be allowed to attend 'special' conventions like the recent one in Dublin.
George
Elephant,
It's easier to get out of a marriage than to get out the org, especially if one is a second or third generation witness (or is that all one generation? Not sure). In a divorce you lose half your stuff, not all of your friends and family who are in.
Your deviation from the point doesn't apply, asking me if I feel that myself or others feel controlled isn't the point. It is a red herring.
But to answer the question (again) EVERYONE who is involved with the org is controlled. Some like the control, some are actually unaware!
Many of us here have read some great books and information about controlling groups and people. Personally I have read Combatting Cult Mind Control and am partway into Freedom of Mind. I would recommend either to you if you would like more information.
On day I told my wife that I really don't like the control the org puts on people. She adamantly disagrees that it's controlling at all! Yeah we still have more work to do. This illustrates the point that many people read articles like this, automatically agree because it comes from Jehovah himself the WT and actually believe they have 100% free will.
It seems that there is some monkey-business going on in the writing dept--
captain,
i asked the question assuming that that was the problem being argued against.
but there are some inconsistencies in your answer...
first you state that some want to be controlled while others dont even realize it...so, if some want to be controlled as you yourself have confirmed, then...what's the argument?
then you state that in fact everybody in the org IS controlled, while you then concede by your inclusion of the comment, that your wife disagrees with you...if she is in disagreement then...who to believe?
is it possible that ideals line up to the extent that we can relate to an org or any other entity and be just that, instead of...mind control?
is it possible that ideals line up to the extent that we can relate to an org or any other entity and be just that, instead of...mind control?
Ummm, no.
Try to change your "ideals" a bit and run it by you local elders to see how it goes...
Like, deciding to grow a beard, for the most innocent of examples....
yan...
you refer to the elders as though you were mortally afraid of them!
who are these elders, that carry so much power that you cannot possibly change your ideals?
its a 'religion', or a concentration camp??
Where's James Woods with "the clock" when you need him? Remnants of Spike Tassle going on right about now..............
I don't think the quotes that Miz has very kindly highlighted are contradictory per se.
I do think they're poorly written and give a misleading representation of what it means to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
For example:
Additionally, "the perfect law" has no need for a long list of sanctions or penaltis, for it is founded on love and engraved on minds and hearts, not on tablets of stone.
I challenge anyone to glance through the elder's manual "Shepherd the Flock of God" and not be dumbfounded by all the "sanctions and penalties" that elders are instructed to mete out on the congregation for a vast spectrum of different scenarios and misdemeanors.
When you are in the company of those who love Jehovah with all their heart, do you feel afraid?
You would be (or SHOULD be) afraid were you ever to voice any disagreement with the teachings of the governing body, especially if you in fear of being estranged from your believing family. For an example of the clandestine nature of how the Society can operate whenever there's a whiff of "apostasy" in the air, one need only refer to Crisis of Conscience and note the underhanded and malicious manner in which brothers can discuss other brothers behind their backs - in Ray's case, to the end of getting them disfellowshipped over a technicality.
Jehovah is the only Person with absolute freedom. Yet, he never misuses it; nor does he monopolize freedom by micromanaging his servants.
This statement is also misleading. Arguably Jehovah, through the pages of the bible, does NOT "micromanage" his servants. However, that word perfectly describes the lengths to which the Society will delve into private areas of an individual's life in which they have no business intruding. A good example would be the prohibition on oral sex for married couples, and (as recently highlighted) the prohibition on masturbation - which also isn't mentioned in the scriptures, but which the Society goes to great lengths (as we have recently seen) to enforce. If this isn't "micromanaging", I don't know what is.
Cedars
you refer to the elders as though you were mortally afraid of them!
Ye, but you wouldn't dare going to them and telling them, you've decided to grow a beard, would you?
