Hi Elephant,
Just replying to your post 21 on the right thread; you wrote
Again, the word substantial does not denote absolute…but to follow your line of thinking, the effects of environments are in fact ill when they are abusive…say for example, a jail or a an underground bunker for imprisonment purposes…I wouldn’t rule out that there are extremist religions comparable to providing such environments…but its silly to compare the JWs to one of these…as far as I know, anyone can leave the religion without having to worry of being thrown in jail…
No, we won't compare any religions to being thrown in jail. We won't even compare JCs with propoerly conducted trials. So you are arguing that "substantial" risk is not a problem because it is not absolute. I'm so glad my employing company doesn't base the Health and Safety policy on that "reasonong"!
It's not that simple; there are many stages a person goes through when changing a fundamental belief. Also if the person has been isolated from that world. . .yes, it can be a big problem.
Well here is an idea I’m finding to be very predominant in these posts…that ‘freedom’ is a long and arduous task without any assurances that it can be attained…one that’s unconvincing…if ‘freedom’ is being dangled just outside of the religion, why is it so hard to attain, yet JW’s will convincingly (and happily) repeat to you that they are in fact free…
It would be polite if you allowed me to decide what I do and don't find convincing. You notice that I didn't even mention "freedom", which is not a task, BTW. Certainly if a person has only socialised in a restricted group it's difficult to expand their circle of friends outside it; if a person has from early childhood learned to look down on "worldlies", it's hard to associate with them and if such a person is outcast by former friends and family it's not easy to get by at all.
yet JW’s will convincingly (and happily) repeat to you that they are in fact free…
Yet the whole point of this thread (and many others) is that what jws say isn't always easy to reconcile with what is.
Retro
I'm puzzled! Where have I argued in favour of mind control? Choice or not is addressed above.
Sorry, others’ argument for mind control…
...or ...your eye has become simple after all...
Now if I were a JW that would be a compliment, I think. As it is I'll just say that argument by . . . is pretty simple too, and I've seen it before here.
…a simple eye denotes a simple mind, no? are you not looking for a simple resolution to this conundrum of elusive freedom?
qrrt
I'm puzzled! Where have I argued in favour of mind control? Choice or not is addressed above.
Sorry, others’ argument for mind control…
...or ...your eye has become simple after all...
Now if I were a JW that would be a compliment, I think. As it is I'll just say that argument by . . . is pretty simple too, and I've seen it before here.
…a simple eye denotes a simple mind, no? are you not looking for a simple resolution to this conundrum of elusive freedom?