by WinstonSmith 336 Replies latest jw experiences
Missed you Winston.
The watchtower disturbs our reality...like a bad dream.
We wish for mother to wake us up...and wipe our sweating brow,
but mother doesn't come when we cry out ... mommy.......
Mommy must conform and obey ......
How very sad for all sides.
Winston, I know this tears the heart right out of you and everyone
who they visit their nasty little shunning policy on.
Their nightmare is just around the corner......
wishing you peace
Hugs for you both.........clarity
I feel for you Winston, my own mother has taken much the same stance. All I do ,and get away with, with her, is ignore her wishes to cut contact. I drop in and see her as I always used to, which I admit is infrequently, we have little to talk about, she only has the cult and cult members to talk about, in which I have scant interest.
It may work for you too, carry on as normal. I do hope so.
The problem for you is that, unlike me, you are not simply inactive/non-attending. It may work for Mrs Smith to ignore the snub and keep contact as usual.
Your Mum has no real reason to go beyond the cults demands.
Good luck my friend.
Hello everyone,
Thanks so much for your kind comments. It came as a bit of a surprise, but also didn't if you get what I mean. I haven't replied yet, am thinking over what I will say. I want to make it clear that her decision is not based on the bible. I also want to make it clear that it is her decision to cut me off, not the other way round.
Whatever and however it turns out I will still keep in touch with an email here and there, a text message now and then. No-one will ever be able to say it was me that walked away from my family. I know it is probably a lose-lose situation, but I have to say what I feel I have to say so that I know in my heart that I did the best I could.
Hope you all had a lovely day :-)
Thanks again.
WS
Sorry to hear this Winston, it is far from easy and so heartbreaking. Don't forget that even though it is your mother's decision in some ways it isn't, she is just following what she believes is right and it would no doubt be very hard on her.
Nevertheless comments like this are maddening -
"So now we both live with the consequences of your decision."
It is sad to see her become so judgemental of your wife, she is choosing to shun her because of your actions. It is actually the height of hypocrisy when you look at her letter as a whole. Had you just faded she would not have shunned you (or her) even though she really does know how you feel. It seems to be a typical JW trait. Because things are out in the open she has no choice but to shun, it is all about appearance.
Winston - this is horrible! You poor guy - to have your own mother treat you like this because of vicious indoctrination from an organization intent on its own survival no matter what is appalling. Both you and your mother are victims of these b@sta@rds. I hope one day she also understands TTATT and realizes the error of her ways. It is so sad. Take care
November 15, 2005, Watchtower, paragraph 16:
God also fulfilled this promise: “I shall certainly conclude a covenant in that day in connection with the wild beast of the field and with the flying creature of the heavens and the creeping thing of the ground, and the bow and the sword and war I shall break out of the land, and I will make them lie down in security.” (Hosea 2:18) The Jewish remnant who returned to their homeland lived in security, with nothing to fear from animals. This prophecy also had a fulfillment in 1919 C.E., when the remnant of spiritual Israel was freed from “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. They now dwell in security and enjoy life in a spiritual paradise with their companions, who hope to live forever on earth. Animalistic traits do not exist among these true Christians.
Notice this? "Animalistic traits do not exist among these true Christians"
**Winston laughs out loud**
Thanks for you kind words guys, it really means a lot to me. I am organising an update on things at the moment as there have been some more developments.
Just to clarify, my previous post was not related to mum at all. It was a general dig at how oh so holy the JWs in general portray themselves (and delude themselves in to thinking this is how it really is), when we all know that the congregation is full of back biters, gossips, false friends, and deception.
Life as a JW is hardly a spiritual paradise, and to be honest if life as a JW was a foregleam of what life in the new system is supposed to be like, then sign me up for the first fireball from heaven!
Alrighty, so there has been a bit going on, sorry for the lack of updates…
When I left things with my last post, I had just heard from dear ol’ mumsy that she had decided to no longer have contact with me. I did not reply straight away as I had no idea what to say. After the great conversation we had had, it was a bit of a bolt out of the blue, and came as quite a shock.
A couple of days later, I had still not replied, and Mrs Smith was on Skype chatting to a friend. While chatting she noticed that a message arrived from Mum. She checked it and it said “Sorry for upsetting you guys.” Mrs Smith messaged me straight away. I thought it was odd that within three days of saying that she had decided to cut contact she was contacting us to say sorry for upsetting us. Mrs Smith, bless her heart, had an exchange with Mum that while, civil, was quite to the point. It went something along the lines of “Winston is very upset that you have decided to cut him off. He has done nothing wrong. We can’t understand why you have made this decision.” Mum replied with “Well Winston made this decision knowing full well what the consequences would be so there’s not much I can do about it.”
Again this was all done in a nice way, with no malice or fire. Mrs Smith asked her outright for an explanation, and mum gave a reply.
Anyhoo, the next day I got a text message from mum asking to catch up on Skype so she could “clear some things up.” I sent back a nice normal text saying sorry for not replying to her email yet but that I would love to have a Skype. We got together later that evening and started chatting.
She started by saying that there were lots of questions that she had wanted to ask me back when I was deciding / decided to DA, but never got the chance to. So I said “Feel free to ask me now!” First of all she got me to explain again why I had decided to DA rather than just be inactive. She wanted to know why I chose DA even knowing that it would mean no contact.
So I started off by telling her about the little things that had bothered me for years (no beards for the brothers, no pants for the sisters, and stuff like that) and how it led me to being bothered by bigger things (why field service hours are the measure of spiritual worth, sex abuse cover ups etc). I mentioned how most of the rules of the organisation are arbitrary and not based on any scriptures, and this was something that always troubled me. I talked about how when I became an elder it really became obvious that things were often by the rules of the Shepherd Book and not the bible. I gave her an example of how when a brother is considered for appointment, the first question that is asked is “What are his field service hours like?” This alway grated on me because the scriptural guidelines say nothing of the sort. Mum tried to explain it away by saying “it is a good way of seeing how faithful and reliable someone is.’ My response of “That may be so, but this is a reason why some brothers don’t get appointed yet the scriptures, which should be our guide, say nothing whatsoever about it.” caused her to pause. The scriptures are totally silent on this point, yet this is first and foremost the thing that is considered and bears the most weight in the decision.
I then began to talk about the Shepherd Book and mentioned the letter that came with it saying non-elders who bind it have to be supervised, and sisters aren’t allowed near it at all. I said how this is another rule based on nothing scriptural. She tried to bend it to be something to do with the headship arrangement, but I said the letter specifically states that the reason for this rule is because confidentiality needs to be maintained - so what, don’t they trust sisters? I thought this was an organisation of loving, trusting Christians. And besides, I said, I fail to see why the book that contains the rules for the congregation needs to be kept secret from them. Its like playing a game of football, but the referee is the only one with the rulebook, and you only know you have stuffed up when the whistle blows. Not very fair at all.
She said that sisters aren’t allowed to teach so why would let them see the book? I honestly didn’t understand this line of reasoning so just said “What on earth could be wrong with letting a sister see the book? Its not like she is going to grab it, run on stage, strongarm the speaker off and start teaching the congregation is it?”
“Okay” she said, “I’m listening.”
I went on to say that the more I read the bible and the WT, the more I could see that there was often a big disparity between the two. This led me on to wondering about even bigger things: Why is the surrounding verse claimed to be figurative yet the number 144,000 is deemed to be literal? Why is it that when reading Revelation 7 that it is clear that the Great Crowd are in heaven? Why is John 10:16 used to show that there are two hopes when it clearly says that there will be two groups that become one? Why is that the Matthew 24:45-47 used as a claim that a small group of men can wield authority of 7 million people when if you read it in context it seems to be an encouragement to everyone to be faithful in what we do in this time of the end?
She then said exactly what I thought she would say: We have just had a run of WT study articles that show clearly from the scriptures that there is a precedent for a small group to be over others. She freely admitted that there are things that she questions but said that there is still enough evidence for her that Jehovah has a group of men to lead everyone. She said the WT answered a lot of questions she had.
I replied by saying that there are so many questions that I have that have never been answered. Any answers that are given are based on stretched logic and faulty reasoning. “So” I said, “Please explain the governing body thing to me be it does not, and never has made sense to me.” Sadly, her reply was classic JW: “You can look it up on the JW website” and gave me the magazine date. So I fessed up and said “I have read them already and when I read the scriptures they quote, I see no evidence to back up their claims. Especially when they are read in context.”
Her reply was that she believes that Jehovah has an organisation on earth, and even if they do things imperfectly she still believes we are in the time of the end, that Armageddon will come and people will live on earth. All of the prophecies have come true, and so will the future ones and even if I got it wrong all these years, at least I will have lived a good life with my fellow man.
I said that completely agreed with everything she said except the part about there being an organisation.
Mum then asked an honest questions: “You don’t believe in it and you feel so strongly about it that you have to DA even knowing what I have to do if you do? I can see why you are upset with the elders and congregation. I admire you for your honesty and for sticking up for what you believe in, but why not just stay inactive when you know full well that we won’t be able to have contact when you DA?”
My reply was “I don't claim to have all the answers. I don't think anyone has all the answers. No-one has a monopoly on truth. The Boreans kept searching the scriptures to check up on what Paul was telling them. Jesus said keep on knocking.”
She said she agreed, but can see nothing out in the world that she wants to be a part of. She’s happy to wait on Jehovah to sort things out. If you don’t believe then so be it, but rightly or wrongly I believe differently and I feel I have to obey Jehovah.
I thought that here I could make use of some reasoning to help her see where I was coming from. I said “I would sit at the meetings and hear them talk about verses like John 10:16 as PROOF that there are two hopes. That scriptures says nothing about here being two separate groups who stay as two separate groups. It says there are two groups that will become one group. It seems to me that Jesus was simply initmating (or maybe even prophesying) that before the the gentiles would also be included in the flock. There was the existing flock (Jews) the other sheep who became part of that flock (gentiles) and they became one flock (Christians). Hearing things being stated from the platform that are demonstrably false was something that no longer wanted to do”
I was hoping she would take a good look what I said because, in my opinion there is some clear logic right there. But she just asked “Why didn’t you ask someone about this? Or did you?”
I explained how I have researched everything to exhaustion which is why I had to come to the conclusion that I came to. I have asked friends, I have asked elders, I have even asked a CO. No-one has ever been able to answer my questions. Usually they just walk away from it because I am daring to question what the governing body have directed. And then I asked here again: “Does what I said about John 10:16 make sense? I have explained it exactly like that to lots of people and I get sideways looks and raised eyebrows and get responded with "well thats not what the society teaches"
She said that she read through it but would have to do it again later to think about it properly. I really hope she does because the way the WTS applies it is nonsensical.
I carried on “The problem I have is not necessarily the Organisation, but the way people look to them for answers and salvation. Sometimes it feels like they have forgotten that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life, we access God through him, not an organisation. I think people forget that. Like their response to my questions about John 10:16 "thats not what the society teaches" It is like they are afraid to think for themselves.”
Her reply was interesting, and honest: “Yes, there are some like that, and as you say we are encouraged to look at things for ourselves, but yes, you do get looked at if you dare go against it. But I decided a while ago that whatever I think about that I cannot leave the organisation. I trust Jehovah to bring it all out in the open.”
Time for me to be honest: “You simply cannot be honest in the organisation. You cannot be honest with the elders, you cannot be honest with your brothers and sisters. This really bothered me. We are supposed to be loving kind and trustworthy (and don't get me wrong most / many are) but you cannot escape the fact that if you question the elders and / or the governing body, you are in for a bad time.”There was a pause and then she said “well that still leaves us with you DA and me not.” Which was my signal to lay it all out and see if I could get her to see the error of the WTS: “The reason that I chose to DA rather than just be inactive is because to do otherwise would mean that I would be living a lie. People would know me as a JW, JWs would consider me to be a JW while I did not consider my beliefs to align with them. Honesty comes at great cost in the organisation. Further to that, it is my firm belief that there is no scriptural basis for cutting off people who disassociate. The word and the situation are quite simply not in the bible. Again it is an arbitrary rule made up by the organisation.”
I thought, well, this is either going to make her run for the hills, or stick around and continue talking...
Sorry guys, more tomorrow, gotta go to bed. Would love to hear your thoughts on the conversation so far.
Winston this is the typical circular reasoning merry go-round. At sundays assembly a brother from the platform said "so theyve made small mistakes and change things--who cares!! You are part of Thr only organizatioN preaching in over 750 languages with people getting baptized every 2 minutes!! this is the truth!!". Like you, i got a sick feeling in my stomach. Its a shame to see so many blind individuals....my wife being one of them...unable to face life without others making decisions for you. Its tough.
DS
