Why aren't you an Atheist?

by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    NC you are being too general. I never said that I don't say people are wrong, I said that I don't think EVERYBODY is wrong and I am right, which is what you accused me of. If my interpretation of Scripture is the opposite of someone elses then one is right and the other is wrong, that's just a fact of the situation at hand. However, this is not the only way it can work, some interpretations are compatible with each other, some are at odds, it's not as black and white as you are making it out to be. I am pretty tired of your miscomprehension, NC. Just read what you said here:

    Well you use the argument that everyone else is wrong if they don't agree with your very particular interpretation of scripture. Have you noticed that?

    When I think I am right and you hold the opposite opinion that means I think you are wrong, but only implicitly. I can be nice about it, not nice about it or just blunt. I never just think I am right for no reason, you should know by now that when I think I am right I back up what I say. My blanket statements have hidden appendixes. People with "teacher complex", such as yourself, will use their red pen whenever someone claims they are right instead of inquiring of the appendix which would answer questions. All you do on this forum is grade essays and frankly your methods leave much to be desired.

    Here's the issue in a nutshell, so listen up, I am only going to say this once. You, and your people, are dysfunctionally fused with the scientific method and I am not. I truly believe that I, as a true believer, am more functional than you (because I believe I am doing what I was destined to do). I believe that proving something right, especially spiritual things, is just as valid a method as making a hypothesis and trying to prove it wrong. The former creates hope, the latter tears it down. I look at the scientific method as a tool that can be picked up and put back in the toolbox freely. I acknowledge that there is more than a single tool or else I wouldn't have a box. You, on the other hand, have literally fused with an inanimate force because you like security of "being consistant" as you say. It's offensive to me that you say I will believe something different next year, it's repulsive actually because it shows not only your gap of understanding in regards to me, it also shows that you are willing to preach it publically even though you know I would disagree. That's called doubling down on ignorance. You are never going to be able to repsect true believers because they will not bend to the will of the scientific method, you will have to kill us if you want to live in a world without God. We will fight until our very last breath. I think you are way out of your league.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Basically where you are is further along

    See, you miss the point again. I don't think that remaining in unbelief is lesser than going into deism or theism. All you have to do is read the first few sentences to figure that out, but you read with bias that you are unable to escape. I do, however, think that going into anti-theism is a snare and a racket (inferior) because it shows that you are unwilling to allow people to progress past unbelief into more unstable territories. You stand in their way, affecting their free will, and make them feel bad if they choose to go despite your "sensible advice." It's a deplorable practice, that's why I think anti-theists should just go home.

    -Sab

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    EP said to Sab:

    Ah, so you think YOU are the true Christian above all others.

    Damn shame Christ said he who is first is last. You seem to think you are above all others, meaning, according to Jesus, you are the least thing to him. According to Jesus, you should get away from him because he doesn't and never will know you.

    I have mentioned your hubris, your pride, your superiority ideas many times. Perhaps now you will realize how you are forcing Jesus to abandon you for your puffed up ways, your pride, your presumption that you are above others in in your devotion, when, in a sad version of reality, you are only devoted to the demented ideas of your own making.

    Jesus will accept you back, all you have to do is humble yourself. Can you do it is the only question.

    Yeah, it's amazing how many minds have been bent past the breaking point by a few seemingly-meaningful (but quite meaningless) paradoxes, eg "he who is least is the greatest".

    Remember, self-flagellation was/is a part of the priest/monk lifestyle of religious practice to punish oneself, stemming back to at least Egyptian times (Goddess Isis).

    In the Christian religion, flagellation found many rationalizations. It was used as an official punishment for priests and monks, a self-inflicted penance, and a dramatization of the sufferings of Christ. There was an epidemic of flagellant sects in Europe during the tenth and fourteenth centuries, associated with penance and love of Christ, and the Catholic authorities took extreme measures to suppress what they considered a morbid enthusiasm for the act. In Latin American countries, flagellation still occurs at religious processions of penitentes.

    Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/flagellation

    The paradox being that to be a successful penitent, you must beat yourself until you feel like you're lower than whale poop, until you realize that feeling that way makes you better than those who DON'T experience such a shaming experience or you get some satisfaction out of it (masochism), and then you invalidated the practice so you have to do it some more.....

    Rinse and repeat.

    Reading the Bible is basically self-flagellating your brain, stripping down the ego to feel inferior to others, hence feeling superior to others. Then you feel guilty for that, so have to read some more.

    Silly religious practices!

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    KS when Jesus said the least was the greatest he was speaking about the flaw in human culture that spans accross all people, nations, tribes and tongues. The people we, as a species, generally put value in are actually worthless and the people we generally regard as worthless are actually kingly (this creates class warfare). Jesus was just pointing this out. He also practiced what he preached by giving Peter the keys to the Kingdom, because he was regarded as the least of the Apostles because they too had the inacurate view of people because they were raised in a flawed culture, just as we are all raised in a flawed culture (as was Moses in Ancient Egypt). Flagellation is a gross misinterpretation of Jesus' message, but it's understandable factoring in what Jesus had to do for us and what his followers had to do after him. They had to suffer and die BECAUSE they were kings in a world where kings are regarded as weak. That's how the Serpent operates. He assigns value to the worthless while he kicks the kings, the one's who can challenge power, to the curb.

    Matthew 18 -
    At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

    -Sab

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Sab:

    Flagellation is a gross misinterpretation of Jesus' message...

    Yeah, tell that to silly ol' Martin Luther, and Pope John Paul II, a few fellow believers who practiced self-flagellation in order to get closer to God.

    Sab, in case you don't get it: I don't BELIEVE in the BIBLE or GOD! So quote the Bible, if you will, but you're a bit like the JW who encounters an atheist while out in field service, and tells them they can look it up in THEIR Bible.

    Check out at 5:40 IN THIS VIDEO:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_pQu0BlN74&feature=relmfu

    YES, it IS mind-numbingly ignorant to do that kind of thing, as is pointing out to an atheist the scripture that says, "the fool says in their heart there is no God". Ya THINK the Bible MIGHT say something like that on the existence of God?

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "Rather than mock Sab..I prefer to work with him.." OUTLAW, page #27, post #24755

    One doesn't have to "mock" Sab, to avoid enabling his - and others' - bizarre claims and conclusions.

    'Working with someone' by enabling them to remain OUT of contact with reality, is most definitely NOT showing them kindness, in the long run.

    Helping them to develop logical, cohesive thought processes would be much more productive.

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    KS, I quote the Scripture not as an authority, but as an example of the point I was making. Jesus, the character depicted in the Gospels, said it first, I am showing you how it not only translates into our day, but Enoch's, Noah's, Moses', Jesus' and Paul's day too. It's telling of you that you'd presume to believe that I would ever think you'd answer to the Bible as an authority, or any Scripture for that matter. You simply underestimate me. Regardless, there are many who listen in to these conversations who will make the connection between the point I was making and the Scripture quoted. You operate on many assumptions, which is a common atheist mistake.

    -Sab

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    you will have to kill us if you want to live in a world without God...sab

    Oh please...we already live in a world without gods...and we didn't have to kill a single soul to achieve it...it just is...

  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    There is no way I'm going to read all 28 pages in this thread, but I do have a question for Sabastious:

    Are you saying you believe that Moses, Jesus and other bible personalities actually existed? Or are you just saying that their messages are still important and relevant for the human race?

    I'm only asking because once I started researching the bible through scholars and historians, I discovered a lot of important proofs that show the bible is mostly a book of plagiarism from other mythologies. Where do you stand on the argument of bible authenticity? (I'm sure it's somewhere in this thread, but hey--football!) I'll check back later or you may PM me.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Are you saying you believe that Moses, Jesus and other bible personalities actually existed? Or are you just saying that their messages are still important and relevant for the human race?

    They existed in the way Wild Bill Hickok or Johnny Appleseed existed. They were game changers of antiquity who were memorialized into mythology. The problem is that for a long time we have been teaching the opposite about characters like Moses and Jesus, when in reality history will give a clearer picture of the actual individuals than the mythology. Still, the mythology is key in understanding what exactly it was that they did that got them into mythology in the first place. You have to look at the characters as real people however in order to fully understand the stories they are in. Just like watching a movie and then thinking about that character AS IF it were real to fully understand the plot.

    -Sab

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