How are "hateful" atheists helping struggling witnesses on JWN or society in general?

by Healthworker 320 Replies latest members adult

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  sabastious

  CA, it does appear that many have wrongfully taken offense to the OP title. He/She is not saying atheists are hateful, but that hateful atheists have been spotted here by the original poster. People should be free to make that assessment without being acused of making sweeping statements or bigotry. Obviously, a vein of JWN is tired of being called names like hateful, which is understandable, but it would do them well to contemplate on WHY certain people are perceiving them as hateful. A good look in the mirror never hurt anyone.

  -Sab
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  sabastious

  I think it's important to point out that many atheists here have admitted to having an agenda. This forum is a place where vulnerable believers take solace from an abusive relationship with their former religion. In my opinion, it's almost predatory-like for some atheists to set up camp here and wage a smear campaign against not only ALL organized religion, but the very idea of a Creator of humanity. These anti-theists say that they want to erase God from their world using reason. I would suggest that maybe they should wait until a person shows interest in godlessness before they go on the offensive against somoene's beliefs. After exiting a high control religious group people are going to want to think for themselves, not just align their thinking with the scientific method. They will want to use their free will to investigate many options. Unfortunately many atheists seem to look at this as some sort of threat and they lash out towards that believer's beliefs and claim that if the believer gets hurt in the process then they should just develop thicker skin or go home. I think this is a form of abuse and should be actionable.

  -Sab
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  keyser soze

  I think it's important to point out that many atheists here have admitted to having an agenda. This forum is a place where vulnerable believers take solace from an abusive relationship with their former religion.

  It works the other way, too. There have been many theists, with no connection to JWs at all, who have come on to this forum trying to recruit lost souls they deem as being vulnerable. Do you have an issue with them, as well?
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  Ah yes, the big bad atheists with an agenda. As if theists don't ALSO have an agenda, namely, preying on vulerable people that need help, trying to convert them to their God of the day and wacky ideas.
• 

  leavingwt

  Related. . .

  http://www.salon.com/2012/10/21/toxic_atheism_drives_people_apart/
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  Chariklo

  I agree with some of what you say, Sabastious, but I think you have to allow for the fact that some of those who emerge from the Watchtower come out of the process as atheists. Some will remain atheists. Some may continue to reflect and decide eventually that it is the Watchtower that is so wrong but that Christianity itself might not be.

  What do you think?

  PS: leavingwt, yes, speaking personally, I find Dawkins' form of evangelical atheism a mighty turn-off. Fortunately, the atheists and humanists I know we'll in real life are never evangelical.
• 

  sabastious

  It works the other way, too. There have been many theists, with no connection to JWs at all, who have come on to this forum trying to recruit lost souls they deem as being vulnerable. Do you have an issue with them, as well?

  I don't mind that atheists try to recruit, it's the WAY in which they recruit, by systematically destroying the fabric of one's belief structure with logic and Science, that I think is foul play. If someone shows themselves to not be willing to give up their beliefs, they shouldn't be subject to having to defend them to the end against others of superior education just because they still want to bring up their beliefs. That's a free speech issue, imo. At first I was against people like DJEggnogg, but it's funny because when he's not around I sort of miss him. He's a powerhouse of the mind and has brought up a few good points. He showed everyone that even beliefs as whacky and obviously untrue as the JW's can be presented in a relatively dignified manner. Was he here to get recruits? Yes, he's a JW, that's what they do. But there is a VERY big difference between someone like eggnog and someone like Alice.in.Wonderland or Recovery who seek to prey on vulnerable people in a desperate and unethical effort to coax them back into an abusive environment.

  -Sab
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  sabastious

  I agree with some of what you say, Sabastious, but I think you have to allow for the fact that some of those who emerge from the Watchtower come out of the process as atheists. Some will remain atheists. Some may continue to reflect and decide eventually that it is the Watchtower that is so wrong but that Christianity itself might not be.

  All that is known is that they are going to come out mad as hell. The humanist movement doesn't need any more angsty sarcastic people, they need more calm and collected rationalists. One's that can keep their cool under the most strenuous of circumstances because if you are going to preach atheism, you better be slow to lash out in verbal assalt. Many of them on the interent have steeped into what seems eternal sarcasm. The fact is atheist content is percieved as insulting by many people. In my opinion that's just a difficulty setting because anything new, which the modern atheist movement is, is difficult in the beginning. Atheism doesn't have to be insulting and there are many atheists who are charming and collected in their views. When they are challenged, however, true colors can shine forth.

  -Sab
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  EntirelyPossible

  All that is known is that they are going to come out mad as hell. The humanist movement doesn't need any more angsty sarcastic people, they need more calm and collected rationalists.

  1) I didn't emerge angry, so that's not "known"
  2) So they need atheists, then, the rational people?
• 

  sabastious

  I didn't emerge angry, so that's not "known"

  Ther reason I say "all" is because the human mind cannot discover it's been lied to (as well as lying to itself) in the way the Watchtower does and not feel anger. That's how they keep you in, with dissonance. The more shame you would feel for being wrong for so long is what holds together the fear that keeps you in. In reality the core emotion that they work is with is shame, which translates into anger as a psychological front. You become angry that you are shameful of something that you did. It's a desperate catch 22 that is always extremely uncomfortable. So really it's shame, and the anger that comes with it that no one can avoid upon emerging from a mind control cult.

  -Sab