Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo 553 Replies latest jw friends

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  rather be in hades

  i speak for no one but myself and i'm sure i'd be somewhere close to the top of the list of "scornful nonbelievers" even though i'm not exactly a nonbeliever.

  i wonder, have believers considered they can be extremely disrespectful to nonbelievers? frankly, i'd say we have believers on here who are every bit, if not more insulting than nonbelievers. to add insult to injury, it doesn't help that said beliefs are not based on something concrete that we can all agree to.

  we have believers who come on here claiming they have the "one true path", believers who call agnostics cowards, and christians who have no problem insulting non-christians.

  we also live in a world dominated by believers of all sorts. believers who legislate their beliefs into society's laws which violate so many civil rights.

  there's the issue of same sex marriage, abortion, contraceptives, and science. there's the issues of women's education, women's sexual health (that really needs to be highlighted because the things coming out of the religious right aren't just insulting, but harmful to society as a whole) and women's education among a whole host of other issues i'm either not aware of, or too lazy to type.

  i'd point to people like rick "frothy mix" santorum who deserves every bit of the backlash he gets, if not more. he's openly advocating the stripping of the civil rights of people he doesn't like because of his beliefs.

  or michelle bachmann who is /was stealing from the state for her bs "pray the gay away" type business. beyond insulting if you ask me.

  then there's the todd akins, taliban members throwing acid on the faces of girls trying to go to school, the pastor terry joneses/westboro baptist church types and cults that kill people by not allowing them to have blood transfussions.

  does anyone expect for atheists/nonbelievers to not push back on that?

  pointing out flaws in logic is not scornful. neither is having a debate.

  turning the tables on insults based on extremely flawed logic is not being scornful.

  that said, i do understand why some would feel that way.

  1. this is the internet, so much communication is lost when we're all sitting at a computer screen
  2. if you walk into a thread and get blindsided by someone eviscerating a part of your identity (right or wrong, logical/illogical, it really doesn't matter) emotionally we're going to get riled up or hurt.
  3. i think it's "easier" mentally to fight fire with fire. i would think we can all agree it's a lot harder to remain calm than it is to pop off.
  4. sometimes we all tend to make the mistake of lumping people together. this thread is an example. not all atheists scorn believers. not all believers are insulting to atheists, not all believers are afraid of science, etc. thankfully, it seems as though believers are slowly but surely taking their beliefs out of secular law. biden, for instance, on the issue of abortion, or the thread on here...i want to say it was christ alone, but not positive, mentioning christians in SUPPORT of gay marriage. i find that encouraging.
  5. this is a board based on religion. we all are in the process of/already have managed to wash off the disgusting stench of a fundamentalist cult. tensions will run high on all sides. some will remain believers, some will eventually decide belief is not for them. in my opinion, and it's really only my opinion, either choice is perfectly fine so long as we:

  • don't screw ourselves of living life to the fullest as this might be the only life we have to live

  and

  • we don't screw others out of living life to the fullest.

  until we can reach that compromise, i can't see how there's not going to be push and pull between those two sides.
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  NewChapter

  As I read Terry's post above, I suddenly realised that one reason might be because of the JW experience. Those who have only experienced the concept of God as presented by the Watchtower, the vindictive view of a Jehovah determined to wipe out almost all of mankind because they "take his name in vain" or don't follow his word or some such nonsense....people who don't understand that there are other concepts of the divine might very well react to the people they insistently still, it seems almost unconsciously, lump together as ...dirty word it seems to them..."believers"

  Well, since respect is the issue, I'd like to point something out to you. It is disrespectful and dismissive to insist that any atheist only has a limited view of gods, based only on JW experience, and that we have not investigated beyond that. It is often said here, and it is deeply insulting. It is also untrue, so to continue to insist on it would be slander.

  Try to understand, it doesn't matter who your god is. It doesn't matter how wonderful, kind, brutal, neutral, jealous, loving, or disinterested your particular god is----our disagreement is not with a god, a watchtower god, a religion, a faction, extremists, fundamentalists, liberals, reasonable people, unreasonable people---our disagreement is with the concept itself.

  Char, you have said that you felt Atheists expressing their views is harmful to those with doubts. You fretted over it, and felt we were hurting a certain poster that was questioning the existence of gods. In fact, our replies were, to a person, reasonable, balanced, and we encouraged the person to keep investigating. You saw this as damaging. But how else were we to respond to this person? We can only respond with the thoughts we hold---so in reality---I think you thought we should have said nothing and allowed the believers to freely convince them to reconsider and come back to the fold. Because none of us said one thing that was harmful or coersive---we just spoke our minds and encouraged them to develop their own opinion through more research. So just speaking was harmful. This stunned me, but also educated me. I really think that many believers want atheists to STFU--I really do.

  Christ Alone seems to actually 'get it'. Sab does on occasion, but then he wanders off into lines of thought that make me think he's lost the point again.

  Most Atheists here have been believers. We know what it's like to be a believer. Most believers here have never been atheists. They don't understand what it means to be an atheist. Some get closer than others, and some just think they know and completely miss the point.
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  Qcmbr

  Sab - what do atheists believe in?
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  Soledad

  In my opinion, it's impossible to be atheist. Atheists are just angry with god for causing x y or z in their lives. They also know that living by a moral code or having standards is hard work. They take the easy way out by thinking "if there is no god then I don't have to worry about being an upright person." Therefore, voila-no god. Makes life easy doesn't it? Their scorn for believers is their own conscience nagging at them.
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  Qcmbr

  Soledad are children ( who are born without belief ) angry at God? As an atheist please point out which god I'm angry at. To be fair I may well be angry if there are any gods of nubile enticements who haven't bothered to make themselves known grrr.
• 

  NewChapter

  To Soledad:

  ROFLMFAO!

  I would like to think you are just portraying the worst stereotype of believers to be satyrical---but you didn't include an ironic smiley---so I will just giggle.
• 

  sabastious

  Sab - what do atheists believe in?

  I already answered this in my previous post. They believe that having faith in a god, or gods, is ultimately a life detriment while going through the rigorous process of shedding one's faith in God is ultimately for the best. They often times hold their experience as some sort of precedent proving that faith ultimately hurts and non belief ultimately liberates one's self from a destructive lifestyle. All of this is belief even if that belief is supported by evidence. For many faith is ultimately of benefit and for some faith is just a temporary shell that will eventually be outgrown. Have you seen my thread on the progression from unbelief to belief? Basically with this post I am trying to paint the process of how humanity goes through phases of belief and then unbelief. We are all in different stages, but that doesn't mean one stage is better than the other, they simply are.

  -Sab
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  Soledad

  Noone knows for sure if children are born without belief.

  You can take your pick at any god you want to be angry with, if any.

  I prefaced my reply with "in my opinion." What are you getting so defensive for? It's not about you.
• 

  Soledad

  Great post Sab.
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  rather be in hades

  In my opinion, it's impossible to be atheist. Atheists are just angry with god for causing x y or z in their lives.

  some atheists come to a very reasonable conclusion that there is no god simply because they have no proof or even a shred of evidence that god exists. then there's so many inconsistencies between religion and the real universe that it calls into question the very nature of god.

  or they come to that conclusion after reading about the history of religious beliefs. we've gone from worshipping animals, the sun, the rain, multiple gods, one god, a trinity of gods...why wouldn't god(s?) clarify that? shouldn't we know who to worship if there was someone to worship?

  They also know that living by a moral code or having standards is hard work.

  are you saying atheists have no moral code? i didn't realize atheists were the only ones running around committing crimes...

  They take the easy way out by thinking "if there is no god then I don't have to worry about being an upright person." Therefore, voila-no god.

  Makes life easy doesn't it? Their scorn for believers is their own conscience nagging at them.

  sigh...

  you want to explain the sordid history of religion and how that can be reconciled by the "superior morals" of believers?

  animal sacrifices, human sacrifices, burning witches, inquisitions, numerous wars, supporting slavery, castigating homosexuals, racism in part (ham is cursed with black skin???), women's rights and education issues...all stemming from believers.

  todd akin

  fred phelps (westboro baptist church dickwad. aka..god hates "fags")

  terry jones (qu'ran burning moron deliberately trying to incite violence, let's call it what it is).

  suicide bombers? al qaeda? the taliban? have we forgotten 9/11?

  the governing body of jehovah's witnesses???

  and believers wonder why they get so much push back after absolutely misrepresenting atheists...