by Christ Alone 67 Replies latest jw friends
"That people in the particular time frame indicated can confidently believe it is possible to escape from the very experience of dying. There is nothing upbuilding about such illusionary hopes. To the contrary they are destructive of true hope, weakening to genuine faith" - page 566
May this be some of the reasons so many x jws have become atheists? I am just asking, because ordinary people seems more agnostic or open to believe?
Love Healthworker
Good summary CA.
Some atheists do tend to confuse quite different beliefs but I think its also true that most believers actually don't understand the differences and float between all of the above beliefs in reponse to evidence.
Nostonecutters - please supply evidence for your bizarre claim on a new thread, I would love to hear it. Cut-and-paste will not be counted as evidence.
ordinary people seems more agnostic or open to believe - healthworker
Most people get through life without seriously examining their beliefs. We had to struggle evidence to escape the borg
For many of us applying that same critical thinking to belief in general led us to atheism.
That wouldn't be a popular opinion on this site, HW. I've pondered why so many exJWs become atheists, while so many ex members of other religions don't. People here would say that it is based ONLY upon research of facts and logic that they came to this conclusion. Personally I doubt that about many. No one is going to admit that they stopped believing in God because of the acts of an organization. They are going to always say that it is because of their research into science. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, however. I just see a larger ratio of JWs and Mormons becoming atheists compared to other ex members. Not sure if any study has been done on this.
It'd be interesting to start a thread JUST to see WHO is atheist and who still believes in God, or the possibility of God. Although I could see it getting hijacked quickly. Maybe I'll try it out...
Some newer atheists have been saying that unless you are an atheist you do not believe in facts, reason, and logic. That's absolutely not true. Yes, atheists and theists disagree. But among the various branches of theism, there are many that have come to their conclusions based on facts as they see them. These conclusions are different from atheists, but logic is still there. I cannot hold to the idea that unless you are an atheist, you do not appreciate facts, logic, and the scientific method.
Just in haste, Christ Alone, in a very busy day.
I agree with you whole heartedly. A very good piece of writing. I am a theist, meaning that I have a strong faith in God (and have returned to the church I know and love.) Like tec, I am absolutely not a creationsist, as I understand the term, though I do believe that God made the earth and universe and everything that there is.
Recently on the forum I have been decried for a lack of ability or will to appreciate science. I love science! As much more than an amateur astronomer I follow all astronomical discoveries avidly. I have a love of geology and all things to do with nature, especially birds. I have been decried for saying that, and yet the very things that make one person say they are an atheist conribute towards my own faith.
The thing is, some atheists on here, in recent posts, seem to have been requiring that anyone who believes in God back it up with quasi-scientific "proof". To me, that is a non-argument, because while God is in all of science, you will not find him with either microscope or telescope. Personally I do think that Jehovah's Witnesses (I met two today and had a letter from a third!) are at a disadvantage. They are so used to being trained to search Bible texts as if they will find evidence of something like proof. almost in a "let's prove it through science" way, that they don't see the greater truths staring them in the face.
It's like not being able to see the forest for not just the trees but for the individual flakes of bark.
That's the enormity of the gap that has to be bridged, and I applaud the attempt to bridge it through civil discussion.
I will post about Enlightenment science and the occult on another thread.
Would it be fair to say that Ex Jehovah's Witness predisposition to atheism is largely reactionary in nature, only later becoming rationalized?
CA
"I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, however. I just see a larger ratio of JWs and Mormons becoming atheists compared to other ex members. Not sure if any study has been done on this."
Seems to be like that. Maybe Ray was right! When we understand the org is just a hoax, we get so devastated that we never dare to believe again. That has almost happend to me.
most believers actually don't understand the differences and float between all of the above beliefs in reponse to evidence.
That's the thing I struggle with everyday with some of my believer friends. Some believers drive me nuts because of this. It really hurts those of us that do believe in God AND love science, know why we do believe what we believe, and do enjoy talking with others about this.
Would it be fair to say that Ex Jehovah's Witness predisposition to atheism is largely reactionary in nature?
No that would be a generalisation that is not justified.
Perhaps my answer above got missed...
Most people get through life without seriously examining their beliefs. We had to struggle evidence to escape the borg
For many of us applying that same critical thinking to belief in general led us to atheism.
There are some "angry at god" former JWs who are not atheists but it is just as big a mistake to see all atheists the same as it is to lump all believers together.
CA - Francis Collins and Kenneth Miller have done a lot to demonstrate that somebody can be a believer and a good scientist. Unfortunately most believers who claim to hold that position are not good at respecting the boundaries.
