Theists lumped into the same category

by Christ Alone 67 Replies latest jw friends

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  Chariklo

  Sizemik, and Cofty, and anyone else who feels they searched and searched and didn't find God and therefore concluded he didn't exist, did you ever just go into a church quietly and spend time in silence?

  Sizemik, you say you spent two years pursuing other forms of Christianity. To me, that seems a very short time indeed on which to base a conclusion.

  I suspect it would be very difficult to form a faith based on searching for proof and drawing rational conclusions ( unless it is the substitute for faith called a belief in the Jehovah of the Watchtower, using their methods.)

  The thing that surprised me most when I went to my first and subsequent JW meetings was that there was nothing mystical or beautiful, little prayerful silence, and personal prayer was absent (backed by reference to a disconnected line from the Bible when I enquired.)

  Theists...not a term I've ever heard used elsewhere. It seems a poor substitute for the simpler but more meaningful "believers". Believers believe. Theists don't theise. Even better, to my ears, would be "the faithful" who hold a faith, often deeply, and of course are theists in the sense that they believe in God, not "a god". The word "theist" reduces the act of belief to a grammatical concept. It is thin and impersonal, whereas the concept of the faithful, who believe, and who, in saying the Creed, utter the words "I believe" many times, if they are devout.

  So there's a dry impersonality about the academic epithet "theist" and it certainly might sound, to someone undecided like something one can't rationally justify.

  Sizemik, sorry to disappoint you, but you sound more and more agnostic to me, as opposed to atheist...you sound like someone damaged, by the Watchtower, as, I suppose, everyone here is in one way or another and to different extents. ( no offence meant! Quite the opposite!)
• 

  elderelite

  Still off topic...... Has nothing to do with different catagory of theiests
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  NewChapter

  I had not even read anything from Dawkins when I let go of god belief. I had a vague notion that the guy existed, but really didn't know what he was about. After I quit believing, I found some of his videos, and they made me happy, for a couple of reasons. First, I had reached the exact same conclusion absolutely independent of him. And second, he gave voice to so many things that I was yet unable to express.

  To think that a Dawkins conversion would have any effect on me, would just be wrong. He played no role in my decision, and I only became interested in him later. I can't think of any atheist I know that would change their mind based on a Dawkins conversion.

  However I did start listening to a lot of Tim Minchin and Bill Maher at the end of my believing days. The day finally came when I realized I simply agreed with them and was no longer laughing cuz I appreciated their POV, which is what I used to tell myself.

  Still, I don't worry that they will be converted. I didn't base my decision on their decisions. My response would more likely be along the lines of, "Get the f*** out of here!" And I would marvel and move on.
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  Chariklo

  Wrong, ElderE! Read again!
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  NewChapter

  I really appreciate non-atheists that just accept and don't try to second-guess motives behind other people's decisions. I find a lot of them at UU. It's a wonderful dynamic, where they simply trust that each person has set out on their journey and took every decision seriously and investigated it thoroughly. Of course, they don't debate, but it's how they treat each other. Not one has ever questioned my atheism or my reasons for my conclusions, and that's easy to get along with.

  I don't believe in mind reading, so it is also a huge relief.
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  cofty

  Sizemik, and Cofty, and anyone else who feels they searched and searched and didn't find God and therefore concluded he didn't exist, did you ever just go into a church quietly and spend time in silence? - Chariklo

  I don't feel like I never found god, I was as convinced, faithful and devout a christian as it would be possible to be. I am certain I experienced all the existential confirmation of my conversion and adoption as anybody else - I should add that I never trusted speaking in toungues as a genuine sign of anything supernatural.

  I'm not sure why you would see a church building as in any way significant to finding god.
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  Chariklo

  Purely and simply that this is something that speaks to me, Cofty. True, that's probably my background. And I absolutely understand and fully believe that you were a faithful, fervent and devout Christian.

  What made me wonder was when someone said you had become a Baptist. Like JW's, though in a much more valid way, and of course without the JW trappings, Baptists can be judgemental.

  I am actually trying to be helpful, and most definitely not judgemental or censorious.
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  still thinking

  As an ex catholic I can sort of relate to why chariklo would have an attachement to the church building itself. I have found myself driving past the church of my youth and feeling a connection to it. But that connection is sentimental. It reminds me of childhood dreams. It reminds me of a time when I believed without asking. It is a symbol of the love I had for my god. Something tangable that I could see and touch and share with like minded people.

  But I also feel sad when I drive past that church, because I know deep down that it wasn't real. It just appeared that way. It was an illusion.

  I used to love all the rituals of catholicism. I understand that connection Chariklo.
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  NoStonecutters

  Indeed, still thinking. It is not irrational to crave those things. Humans fundamentally need tradition, ritual, and structure. They give us purpose and meaning in life. They also help us focus.
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  NewChapter

  As an ex catholic I can sort of relate to why chariklo would have an attachement to the church building itself.

  I was never Catholic, but I went to a Catholic school. The buildings are something else, and the ritual and atmosphere does indeed stir a lot of emotion. My soon-to-be sister-in-law said something that I found quite cool. She is an atheist, but she went to Rome. She told me that the week she was in Rome, she was a Catholic, because she was overtaken by the beauty. But we can certainly understand how buildings can stir the sentiment. Once she left Rome, she was no longer Catholic, but remembers the buildings were awe inspiring.