by Christ Alone 67 Replies latest jw friends
Humans fundamentally need tradition, ritual, and structure
Yes, I think there is something to that, but I find these same things in non-spiritual arenas. There is more than one way to fill that desire and get that feeling that some call 'spiritual' but I have started calling 'efferzingpow' because it is available to all of us, and the supernatural is not necessary to invoke it
What made me wonder was when someone said you had become a Baptist.
No I never identified as a Baptist. I went to a church that was loosely part of the Baptist Union of Scotland but denominations were of no interest to me.
Flew himself answered the critics accusation about the work being varghese's work. A discussion of that can be found here: http://www.bethinking.org/science-christianity/intermediate/flew-speaks-out-professor-antony-flew-reviews-the-god-delusion.htm
Reading his review of the god delusion doesn't strike me as the work of a senile old man.
according to this link: http://www.christianpost.com/news/renowned-atheist-turned-deist-antony-flew-dies-at-87-44761/
The 2007 book, There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind, describes Flew's conversion from atheism to deism and is thought by some to be the work of Varghese that Flew merely signed off on.
New York Times Magazine writer Mark Oppenheimer expressed his doubts over Flew's mental capacities after meeting up with him in England, suggesting that the once great philosopher had become a "blissfully unaware" old man "just following the evidence as it has been explained to him."
"Depending on whom you ask, Antony Flew is either a true convert whose lifelong intellectual searchings finally brought him to God or a senescent scholar possibly being exploited by his associates," he wrote.
Flew, however, released a statement rebutting the circulating allegations, saying that he would not have a book issued in his name that he does not 100 percent agree with.
“I needed someone to do the actual writing because I’m 84 and that was Roy Varghese’s role,” Flew stated. “The idea that someone manipulated me because I’m old is exactly wrong. I may be old but it is hard to manipulate me. That is my book and it represents my thinking.”
The book, notably, went on to win the 2008 Christianity Today Book Award in Apologetics and Evangelism, with the judges hailing it for making the philosophical search for God both “accessible and exciting.”
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/renowned-atheist-turned-deist-antony-flew-dies-at-87-44761/#Zjtu1bkomWpDXfly.99
To get this topic back on track, I found this regarding flew: Despite his exodus from atheism, Flew is believed to have remained simply a deist, believing in a god who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/renowned-atheist-turned-deist-antony-flew-dies-at-87-44761/#k20zGdMVHStVpWmT.99
Yeah thats what I said CA....at most he was a Deist. Either way, his belief or non belief has no impact on me.
If I feel the need to believe in a deity before I die I will if it gives me some comfort. My atheism doesn't stop me self soothing if I feel like it.
Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing witcha, ST. I was just wondering why some viewed Flew as a crazy old guy that let an evangelical take advantage of him.
Because apart from that christian website you quoted that is the general concensus. Not that he was crazy, but that he was not his usual self. Some have even commented that he seemed to have lost his essence, the essence of Flew.
Who knows what goes through someones mind when they are in their final years. Who can condem someone for 'wanting' there to be something even though they know it's not likely true. I can't.
But what is interesting is that believers/christians love to use Flew as though it is some sort of proof of their god. See and atheist admitted he was wrong. So what? He still isn't agreeing with christians. He still denys your christ. Whats proof is it of anything really other than an old man who had a change of heart and allows for the possiblility that there may be something there that he doesn't really understand. Hell, most atheist allow for the same possibility but until they find some reason to 'believe' it is true they don't. They don't bother trying to figure out what this unknowable thing might be. He admitted to no more than that.
I wasn't using him as any proof. There were a few reasons I brought him up. One was I am fascinated by atheists that become believers. No proof for me, just interesting reading. Also some have made the claim that no respected scientist believes in creation. Of corse flew was mostly a philosopher, but he was a learned guy. Collins fascinates me too.
the main reason I brought him up was that I've heard the accusations, mainly perpetrated by the New York Times, and wanted to see why people say that. It was interesting to see that flew actually responded to those charges. That's all.
Sizemik, you say you spent two years pursuing other forms of Christianity. To me, that seems a very short time indeed on which to base a conclusion.
That's why we're all different.
Sizemik, sorry to disappoint you, but you sound more and more agnostic to me, as opposed to atheist...you sound like someone damaged, by the Watchtower, as, I suppose, everyone here is in one way or another and to different extents. ( no offence meant! Quite the opposite!)
No offence taken and I'm not dissappointed. I am not struggling for identity for want of a label. You can label me how you like and say so at your pleasure . . . but it really changes nothing.
As I said earlier . . . we spend too much time trying to read between the lines and make judgements about people. Why not just address the content of the post? I'm doing my best to be clear, but fail to see a connection between the validity of an argument and the color of my hat.
So do we have any pantheists, polytheists,autotheists, eutheists, dystheists maltheists (id love to talk to one of these), or any other types I might have missed?
