Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos 529 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    It was a luni-solar calendar - pre-Julian, pre-Gregorian. 12 lunar months of either 29 or 30 days, then every 3 years or so (there wasn't a rigid, fixed scheme then) a leap month was added.

    Thanks Anne.

    So, the people that kept the time, sort of speaking, they did mark a reign in general terms of to the day?

    And, is there any chronology in the bible? I mean is there any dates at all or are they simply based on events that happened during the reign of a certain king?

    And if that is the case, what methods do we use to find the current dates for those events?

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Yes, the marking off of regnal years was how they kept time. We have '2012 AD/CE.' They had 'Year X of King Y.' The Babylonians were avid stargazers and would record their observations, so if a particular celestial event was recorded in Month A, day B, of Year X of King Y, we can put a modern calendar date to it.

  • TD
    TD
    TD: I agree. That is why when I teach my Bible students the 1914 doctrine, the Gentile Times is the last thing I teach them. I establish it based on Revelation's own merit and the empirical evidence that points to it.

    Can the seven times (years?) of Daniel 4 be turned into a period of 2520 years without leaving the confines of Daniel?

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    The whole point is "when was Jerusalem destroyed"? It was not destroyed 70 years before Babylon was destroyed. This is historical FACT.

    Toss it in with all the other false statements in the OT. For starters, please provide proof that the Exodus ever occurred. Good luck with that.

    Then for just one of many examples, how about Tyre. Ezekiel promised it would be destroyed and never inhabited. People still live there today. They even talk about it in the NT!

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Yes, the marking off of regnal years was how they kept time. We have '2012 AD/CE.' They had 'Year X of King Y.' The Babylonians were avid stargazers and would record their observations, so if a particular celestial event was recorded in Month A, day B, of Year X of King Y, we can put a modern calendar date to it.

    ANd this method has been found correct in dating all other events? yes?

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Cyrus Helps the Exiles to Return

    1 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing:

    2 “This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:

    “‘The Lord , the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. 3 Any of his people among you may go up to Jerusalem in Judah and build the temple of the Lord , the God of Israel, the God who is in Jerusalem, and may their God be with them. 4 And in any locality where survivors may now be living, the people are to provide them with silver and gold, with goods and livestock, and with freewill offerings for the temple of Godin Jerusalem.’”

    5 Then the family heads of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and Levites—everyone whose heart God had moved—prepared to go up and build the house of the Lord in Jerusalem. 6 All their neighbors assisted them with articles of silver and gold, with goods and livestock, and with valuable gifts, in addition to all the freewill offerings.

    The List of the Exiles Who Returned

    2 Now these are the people of the province who came up from the captivity of the exiles, whom Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon had taken captive to Babylon (they returned to Jerusalem and Judah, each to their own town, 2 in company with Zerubbabel, Joshua, Nehemiah, Seraiah, Reelaiah, Mordecai, Bilshan, Mispar, Bigvai, Rehum and Baanah):

    Jeremiah's Letter to the Exiles

    29 These are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem to the surviving elders of the exiles, and to the priests, the prophets, and all the people, whom Nebuchadnezzar had taken into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon. 2 This was after King Jeconiah and the queen mother, the eunuchs, the officials of Judah and Jerusalem, the craftsmen, and the metal workers had departed from Jerusalem. 3 The letter was sent by the hand of Elasah the son of Shaphan and Gemariah the son of Hilkiah, whom Zedekiah king of Judah sent to Babylon to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. It said: 4 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, to all the exiles whom I have sent into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: 5 Build houses and live in them; plant gardens and eat their produce. 6 Take wives and have sons and daughters; take wives for your sons, and give your daughters in marriage, that they may bear sons and daughters; multiply there, and do not decrease. 7 But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, andpray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare. 8 For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are among you deceive you, and do not listen to the dreams that they dream, [a] 9 for it is a lie that they are prophesying to you in my name; I did not send them, declares the Lord .

    10 “For thus says the Lord : When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord , plans for welfare [b] and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you.

    If we go by Ethos calculations Jehocian's group went into exile in 617.......10 years before Jerusalem's destruction 607, making their exile 80 years.......
  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Happy Thanksgiving all!

    I'm thankful for Ethos, not that I agree with his arguements, but having a JW apologist livens things up around here! I will be having turkey with utensils, but it won’t factor into the 70 years and more than it did in Jeremiah 25:12.

    BTW--thank you Pterist and Ann. I gleaned a new point from y'all about Jechoniah vs Zedekiah and Jeremiah 17.

  • Pterist
    Pterist

    Thank you, Happy TG, brother.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    is there any chronology in the bible? I mean is there any dates at all or are they simply based on events that happened during the reign of a certain king?

    I don't think I gave as full an answer as I should have (I was rushing). In the Bible, there are only regnal years of kings. It gives a relative chronology like what king reigned for how long, which other kings he interacted with and in which of his/their regnal years certain events happened. But we need extra-biblical sources (e.g. Babylonian) to astronomically tie those regnal-based dates to a modern calendar date we can relate to.

    ANd this method has been found correct in dating all other events? yes?

    I wouldn't say "all." There are certain periods it's pretty reliable for (like the 8th century BCE onward), but the further back in time you go, the sketchier it can become. Difficulties arise with the biblical figures, how Judah and Israel were counting regnal years at the time, co-regencies, perhaps the odd transcription error, etc. The chronology for the neo-Babylonian era is fairly solid, so if Neb was said to destroy Jerusalem in his 18th year (or 19th, depending on the verse), and because there are sufficient records to pin some of Neb's regnal years to the 'sky clock,' we can deduce the BCE year it took place.

  • NeverKnew
    NeverKnew

    I presented the following to a JW elder. He assured me he'd go to the library to find a source OTHER than the WT who supported 607. I have yet to see him.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit