by Ethos 529 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Ethos...**** Is There Any Connection Whatsoever Between Jeremiah and Leviticus?:****
Leviticus defines and specifies how the land pay offs it's sabbaths and how the jubilee set it free...A principle laid down by Jehovah.
Jehovah states because the sabbaths were neglected, the land would pay off it's sabbaths during Babylon's 70 years of domination. It was a law of Jehovah's just requirements of that time. Jewish people and those who knew the law would have understood this in Jeremiah.
2. (3-7) How to give the land its Sabbath.
Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard, and gather its fruit; but in the seventh year there shall be a sabbath of solemn rest for the land, a sabbath to the LORD . You shall neither sow your field nor prune your vineyard. What grows of its own accord of your harvest you shall not reap, nor gather the grapes of your untended vine, for it is a year of rest for the land. And the sabbath produce of the land shall be food for you: for you, your male and female servants, your hired man, and the stranger who dwells with you, for your livestock and the beasts that are in your land; all its produce shall be for food.
a. In the seventh year there shall be a sabbath of solemn rest for the land: This applied to both grain crops and fruit bearing plants; Israel was to do this as a radical demonstration that the land belonged to God, not to them.
i. "During the sabbatical year there must be no systematic harvesting of self-seeding crops, or such fruits as figs and grapes. Anything of this nature that the land produces without human aid is the property of all, and people are to obtain food wherever they can find it, just as the Israelites did in their wilderness wanderings." (Harrison)
b. And the sabbath produce of the land shall be food for you: for you: It was also a powerful testimony of dependence on God; Israel was declaring their belief that God would meet their needs.
i. It was also just plain good ecology! Giving the land a rest every seven years would help restore vital nutrients to the soil that normally would be depleted.
ii. Israel's failure to keep this command determined the length of their captivity; Leviticus 26:34 says that if Israel is not obedient, God will make sure the land gets its Sabbaths by exiling the nation to an enemy land; this was fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity of Israel (2 Chronicles 36:20-21).
iii. Today, many observant Jews find a way around the Sabbath year law; on the seventh year, they "sell" their land to a Gentile, work it, and then "buy" it back from the Gentile when the Sabbath year is over. The Gentile makes a little money, and the Jew can say, "It wasn't my land on the Sabbath year, so it was all right if I worked it."
B. The Year of Jubilee.
1. (8-12) The year of Jubilee to be observed every fiftieth year.
And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years; and the time of the seven sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years. Then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement you shall make the trumpet to sound throughout all your land. And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a Jubilee for you; and each of you shall return to his possession, and each of you shall return to his family. That fiftieth year shall be a Jubilee to you; in it you shall neither sow nor reap what grows of its own accord, nor gather the grapes of your untended vine. For it is the Jubilee; it shall be holy to you; you shall eat its produce from the field.
a. You shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years: The year of Jubilee was somewhat like a Sabbath year, in the sense that crops were not planted, and the land was given a rest.
i. Many take the prophecy of Isaiah 61:1-3 to speak of a Jubilee year. Since Jesus read this passage in a Nazareth synagogue at the beginning of His ministry, some have speculated that Jesus' ministry began in a year of Jubilee - though it was mostly not observed among the Jews at that time.
b. You shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants: Our founding fathers were aware of the principle of the year of Jubilee and the freedom associated with it; proclaim liberty throughout all the land is inscribed on the Liberty Bell that hangs in front of Independence Hall in Philadelphia.
I no longer care to refute any JW date. It takes mutal respect and mutal respect for scholarsihp. If the Witnesses did not continually misconstrue, secular sources, one might even waste one's time. So many people here are so beyond this.
The prime point for is that Christ is God. The Bible is not inerrant. Countless centuries of Christians have grappled with what propehecies mean. It is crazy that a group of people in Brooklyn would find the exact answer. The authors did not know the answer or they would have merely stated it.
The Witnesses love to read books in a few sentences here and there. The Bible is read in the same manner. I don't call it reading. I call it hunting to support at your conclusion you reached before reading the Bible.
Paul's letters reveal no overreaching org. One can question and have even stronger faith.
There is a whole world (almost) that doesn't give a damn about Babylonian exile. What do we know of the Hindu scriptures? Krishna's battles. Why should everyone bow down to a European construct God?
Neverknew ...great graphics !!!
I never asserted that all the policies must have been changed in order for a new administration to begin ruling. I merely asserted that some policies should have. Can you provide us with any evidence that a significant number of Babylonian policies were changed before Cyrus' decree? Your presidential illustration is your strawman and it is nothing I have ever put forth. The day Obama is re-elected (Medes become the world power) and Bush loses office (Babylon is overthrown), there has no been no change or significant change in Bush's administrational policy.
The fact that it was a different administration doesn't actually need to be evidenced by any changed policies. It was a different administration because it was a different administration. It was a Medo-Persian administration. There was no longer a Babylonian administration. For this reason, I admit that my analogy about Obama was a bit weak, as it would be more like the US president being replaced by a communist Chinese national (or, politically speaking, maybe the other way around).
Is There Any Connection Whatsoever Between Jeremiah and Leviticus?:
Most scholars place the writing of Leviticus during the period in Babylon, so it is entirely unsurprising that it has similarities with Jeremiah. And yet none of those verses mentions 70 years. Instead, Leviticus mentions a period of 49 years.
You're just going in circles now with your other comments.
Bandontherun...**** There is a whole world (almost) that doesn't give a damn about Babylonian exile. What do we know of the Hindu scriptures? Krishna's battles. Why should everyone bow down to a European construct God?****
You are so correct, most of the world do not care about Babylon's 70 years of domination, however, the REJECTION of the WTS "Good News" of Christ rulership over the earth in 1914 has become the single issue (in their theology) of the world's condemnation and judgement......
I oppose this false good news as the original good news has never changed. It is an empowered life in Christ to overcome Satan, sin and death. Galatians 1:6-9, Romans 1:16
Where these 70 years based on the gregorian chronography or the Hebrew? did they include leap years? Who kept count while in exile?
The Hebrew calendar is based on the Babylonian calendar, including their names of the months. Prior to the Babylonian period, the Jews used a different calendar system.
Ethos said:
In other words, you cannot flip back and forth between two books of completely different literary contexts, origins, and time periods and use one to qualify what the other meant.
TD said:
Can the seven times (years?) of Daniel 4 be turned into a period of 2520 years without leaving the confines of Daniel?
Well, no it can't. And it's hilarious.
Apparently Ethos is happy to give it an exemption - he's probably not even aware of the gaping contradiction. It is not clear why it is 'acceptable' to "flip back and forth between" not two but several "books of completely different literary contexts, origins, and time periods" of entirely unrelated scriptures together in order to reach 1914.
But 'apparently' it is a 'ridiculous' notion to associate events spoken of by Jeremiah and Daniel (whom JWs believe to be contemporaries - or at the very least, the same 'generation') in describing the same period.
Are these selective interpretations [of 2Chronicles 36:21]?
Ethos proudly claims that some Bible translations support the view of the NWT regarding 2 Chronicles 36:21. (Though he includes the NIV and DR translations in his arguments, those actually do not conclusively support that interpretation; refer also to the analogy about cold weather I gave earlier in this thread.)
The fact that the context of other statements of Jeremiah doesn't fit that interpretation is simply ignored. The chiastic structure (basically, mirrored pairs of lines) of the original text, wherein the internal pair of lines are a reference to Leviticus 26:34, is also ignored:
to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah,
until the land had paid off its sabbaths.
All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath,
to fulfill seventy years.
Because when it's convenient, it's 'majority rules'. The fact that the vast majority of Bible translations do not support the JWs' selective translation and interpretation of Jeremiah 29:10 is also conveniently ignored.
