Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos 529 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  OUTLAW

  Outlaw wasnt even involved in the discussion, that was nothing more than humorous dialogue.

  Please show me where I exhibited ad hominem attacks.....Ethos

  Now Outlaw please exit stage left. Your routine is stale, your jokes are staler,

  and this conversation is far too intellectually above your dismal IQ.....Ethos

  So you till can`t find an Encyclopedia to Support 607 BCE..

  ?..

  LOL!!..

  The WBT$ Monitors reading this Thread must Hate you right now..

  Your making the WBT$ look like Fools on an International Forum..

  How many people have you Stumbled,from Accepting the WBT$ as Gods Organization?..

  How many JW`s will Walk Away from the WBT$ because of You?..

  Your a One Man WBT$ Wrecking Machine..

  WBT$ Apostates from Around the World..

  Salute you!..
  

  ............................ ... OUTLAW
• 

  Ethos

  Final nail in the coffin to Jeffro and his 609 interpretation:

  As if it hadn't been thoroughly transparent that the usage of the verb `abad is repeatedly used in conjunctional relation to the actual deportation of the Jews to a foreign land, I have one solidifying argument that I think will make this point quite clearly. Jeffro admits on page 18, post #7 that the word used for exile in the OT is "galah". Again we will look at how Jeremiah used the word and in what context.

  Lamentations 1:3 "Judah has been led away into captivity (galah), oppressed with cruel (rob) slavery ( abodah). She lives among foreign nations and has no place of rest. Her enemies have chased her down, and she has nowhere to turn. (New Living Translation)

  The word abodah's primitive root word in Hebrew is: abad; which as I stated can mean: "to labor; to serve." Now the adjective "rob" simply means very abundant, copious. So now that we know the literal meanings, let's look at how it is translated the world over. In red I will highlight how the word translated "serve" is phrased, interpreted, and understood in the following passages; underlined (where it is evident) I will highlight the conjunctional causation of the servitude.

  New Living Translation(©2007)
  Judah has been led away into captivity, oppressed with cruel slavery.

  English Standard Version(©2001)
  Judah has gone into exile because ofaffliction and hard servitude;

  New American Standard Bible(©1995)
  Judah has gone into exile under affliction And under harsh servitude;

  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
  Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude:

  GOD'S WORD® Translation(©1995)
  "Judah has been exiled after [much] suffering and harsh treatment.

  King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
  Judah has gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude:

  American King James Version
  Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude:

  American Standard Version
  Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude;

  Douay-Rheims Bible
  Ghimel. Juda hath removed her dwelling place because of her affliction, and the greatness of her bondage:

  Darby Bible Translation
  Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude;

  English Revised Version
  Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude;

  Webster's Bible Translation
  Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude:

  World English Bible
  Judah is gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude;

  Young's Literal Translation
  Removed hath Judah because of affliction, And because of the abundance of her service;

  Now on a strictly causational basis: we adduce that the cause of Judah's exile is 1): affliction 2): great servitude. Now the servitude to Babylon as a world power is not a cause for the Jews to go in exile, anymore than the world's subjugation to the United States as a world power would be a cause for a foreign to go into exile. This makes it servitude definitely NOT a matter of Babylonian servitude (as a world power). So right there the 609 doctrine is dismantled.

  Now on a strictly hermenuetical basis: the word Jeffro tried to point out simply means "serve" is, in this passage, implied as harsh labor and slavery, associated with unusual cruelty and punishment; used in conjunction with the diaspora of the Jews (i.e. the exile); and is written by Jeremiah. Therefore, it is conclusively proven that the servitude DID in fact mean slavery/work in a foreign land as the scriptures repeatedly said. There is no better 'interpreter' than Jeremiah himself, who in his writings has made it clear that the 70 year servitude was not a servitude of subjection as a world power, but THROUGH LABOR. Now Jeffro will try to say these scriptures don't specifically mention the 70 years, but they are all written by Jeremiah, all relate to the servitude to Babylon, and since the servitude of Babylon is said to be for 70 years, then they are all interconnected. Judah does not go into exile because Babylon is the world power. That interpretation doesn't even make any sense, as we examine the usage of the word serve over and over again. I really hope there won't be any more denial at this point but I won't be surprised.

  EDIT: Again, this is a red herring, since Gedaliah was talking about Jews taken to Babylon in 587BCE. The reason they might be afraid is they were being taken to Babylon. It is entirely reasonable that they might think servitude there would be worse than servitude in Judea.

  Thank you for proving my point, that the servitude or subjection to Babylon as a world power was not just something that signified Babylon being the dominant power for 70 years. 'All the nations' were subject to Babylon as a world power for 70 years, yet it is somehow worse to be subservient to Babylon depending on what country you reside in. Hmmm, why is that? Is that because the servitude involved MORE than just a general subjection? You unwittingly admit, that the servitude in Babylon, would be more severe than the servitude in Judea. This is like saying: the servitude to America as a world power is WORSE in Australia, than it is in China. That makes zero sense. But if the servitude implied SLAVERY, LABOR, HARSH TREATMENT, EXILE as Jeremiah so eloquently noted, then of course it would be worse for them in Babylon. You have only solidified my argument with your statement. Thank you.
• 

  Ethos

  I will address Outlaw's ridiculous red herring post once again. Apparently he does not know the definition of an ad hominem attack.

  "marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made."

  Now if you go back to page 15, particularly posts #15 and #19 by Outlaw you will see that he stated nothing of serious argumentation, but ratherhoration satire and even his ridiculous claim about the definition of a "dictionary" and 607 BC was answered when I quoted the ISBI. No ad hominem there.

  Jeffro: I've already demonstrated the flaws in your 'analysis' of the Hebrew word abad. It doesn't mean exile. A person can be serving (abad) irrespective of whether they are or are not in exile (galah).

  Did you know? Let's assay your response.

  Ethos next attempts to imply that the Hebrew abad means exile , which is simply not the case.

  No, I specifically stated as I quoted from Strong's dictionary: that `abad literally means to "serve" or "to be forced into labor." (cf. post #4 on page 18)

  The term appears hundreds of times in the Old Testament, and it means labour or to serve. It never means exile.

  Strawman continues.

  Ethos selects a smattering of verses (such as Jeremiah 5:19) where it is used in reference to Jews 'serving in a foreign land', but in those verses, it only ever means serve, and the foreign land part is always from entirely separate Hebrew words.

  There was no smattering of verses. It was simple methodical exegesis of comparative and parallel usage of the specific Hebrew verb `abad in context. In those verses more than simply "serving" was implied, as it was shown to always be connected with a banishment or deportation from the soil of Judah. Stating that the "foreign land part is always from entirely separate Hebrew words" does not imply that the usage of `abad is not associated with the diaspora of the Jews. It's amazing how you've insinuated that I've selectively smattered these verses (on the basis of superficial knowledge) when your oratory for dismissing the synthesis I made between the two is on a simple basis of separate Hebrew words,when this is not merely an argument of phonology but emphatically an argument of context and hermeneutics. I will again point out to you the context of these verses; particularly the utilization of `abad in conjunction with the Babylonian vicinity.

  Jeremiah 5:19 “And you must say to them, ‘Just as YOU have left me and have gone serving (`abad) a foreign god in YOUR land, so YOU will serve (`abad) strangers in a land that is not YOURS.’”

  Simple question: Where will the Babylonians be served? In a land that is not theirs. Therefore, the servitude cannot begin in 609 BCE while all the Jews remain comfortably abided in Judah.

  Jeremiah 16:13 “And I will hurl YOU out from off this land into the land that YOU yourselves have not known, neither YOUR fathers, and there YOU will have to serve (`abad) other gods day and night, because I shall not give YOU any favor.”’

  Simple question: Where will the Babylonian gods be served? In a land that they have not known. I also don't see how they could serve Babylonian gods before they had any contact with Babylon whatsoever, even in 609 BCE. Therefore, the servitude cannot begin in 609 BCE, while all the Jews remain comfortably abided in Judea.

  Jeremiah 17:4 “ And you let loose, even of your own accord, from your hereditary possession that I had given you. I also will make you serve (`abad) your enemies in the land that you have not known; for as a fire YOU people have been ignited in my anger.

  Simple question: Where does Jehovah say he will make the Jews serve their enemies? In a land they have not known. Therefore, the servitude cannot begin in 609 BCE, while all the Jews remain comfortably abided in Judea.

  Jeremiah 40:9 “And Ged·a·li′ah the son of A·hi′kam the son of Sha′phan proceeded to swear to them and to their men, saying: “Do not be afraid of serving (`abad) the Chal·de′ans.Continue dwelling in the land and serve (`abad) the king of Babylon, and it will go well with YOU."

  Simple question: Where will the Jews serve the king of Babylon? In the land of the Chaldeans.
  Another question: Why would the Jews be afraid of being in servitude to Babylon as a world power? What is there to be afraid of since it's just Babylon's dominion and power that is being prophesied here?

  As we can see from all four Jeremaic passages, every time the word "serve" is used it is used in direct conjunction with the diaspora of the Jews in a foreign land. Of course, serve is used in other senses, like worshipping and keeping the sabbaths, but from the context that is obviously not the usage of the verb abad here.

  Leviticus 26:34 "“‘At that time the land will pay off its sabbaths all the days of its lying desolated, while YOU are in the land of YOUR enemies.At that time the land will keep sabbath, as it must repay its sabbaths. 35 All the days of its lying desolated it will keep sabbath."

  Only while the Jews were in the land of Babylon, while the land was desolate could the sabbaths be payed off. Ezra says the 70 year prophecy found fulfillment in the paying off of sabbaths. But 587 to 539 will never ever give you 70 years. Jeffro's interpretation simply does not work.

  Indeed, "a seventy-year figure is used for the Exile" - HarperCollin's Bible Dictionary page 315

  As for those who wish to discuss Daniel 1:1 and VAT, I will do so once when we can get some honesty or at least acknowledgement of the evidence I've provided for my conclusions.
• 

  Jeffro

  Judah has gone into captivity because of affliction, and because of great servitude:

  Or as the New World Translation puts it:

  Judah has gone into exile because of the affliction and because of the abundance of servitude.

  Sigh. Ethos again makes a weak claim about a form of the word abad, but completely ignores the actual causal relationship in the verse he thinks proves his point.

  Why "has Judah going into captivity"? What happened before Judad went into captivity?? They went into captivity because of affliction and great servitude. They were already in servitude, and later a result of Babylon's dominance they went into captivity.

  Jeremiah 25:8-11 indicates that all the nations would serve Babylon for 70 years. That is the abundance of servitude, which also affected Judah. As a result of the abundance of servitude, the Jews were taken into exile.

  The worst part his that Ethos realises the causal relationship of the words, but just makes up his own interpretation instead.

  When it comes to defending 607, Ethos is his own worst enemy.
• 

  Jeffro

  Simple question: Where will the Babylonians be served? In a land that is not theirs. Therefore, the servitude cannot begin in 609 BCE while all the Jews remain comfortably abided in Judah.

  Equivocation fallacy. People can serve from anywhere. Nowhere does the Bible say the Jews would be "in a land that is not theirs" for seventy years. The Jews, like all the nations, were in servitude to Babylon for seventy years. For part of that time, they were in servitude in Babylon. All of the nations were not in Babylon for seventy years.

  Simple question: Where will the Babylonian gods be served? In a land that they have not known. I also don't see how they could serve Babylonian gods before they had any contact with Babylon whatsoever, even in 609 BCE. Therefore, the servitude cannot begin in 609 BCE, while all the Jews remain comfortably abided in Judea.

  Again, the verse in question makes no mention of 70 years or any other time period, but only that the Jews would be in a foreign land at some point.

  Simple question: Where does Jehovah say he will make the Jews serve their enemies? In a land they have not known. Therefore, the servitude cannot begin in 609 BCE, while all the Jews remain comfortably abided in Judea.

  Again, there is no mention of the 70 years at Jeremiah 17:4. The 70 years was a period during which all the nations served Babylon. But all the nations did not serve in Babylon for 70 years. And nor did the Jews.

  Simple question: Where will the Jews serve the king of Babylon? In the land of the Chaldeans.
  Another question: Why would the Jews be afraid of being in servitude to Babylon as a world power? What is there to be afraid of since it's just Babylon's dominion and power that is being prophesied here?

  Again, this is a red herring, since Gedaliah was talking about Jews taken to Babylon in 587BCE. The reason they might be afraid is they were being taken to Babylon. It is entirely reasonable that they might think servitude there would be worse than servitude in Judea.

  The following hypothetical scenario is based on Ethos-style 'logic':

  • I went to London this month.
  • While I was in London I bought food.
  • I also bought food last month.
  • Therefore, I was also in London last month.
• 

  Black Sheep

  "marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made."

  How does that not describe your Post 102, at http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/118291/3/Fact-Jews-Returned-In-538-BC-Kills-Off-Watchtower-Chronology?
• 

  Jeffro

  Ethos next attempts to imply that the Hebrew abad means exile, which is simply not the case.

  No, I specifically stated as I quoted from Strong's dictionary: that `abad literally means to "serve" or "to be forced into labor." (cf. post #4 on page 18)

  Do you know what imply means??

  You did make the implication because you selectively quoted—from among the hundreds of times that abad appears in the Old Testament—some verses that mention serving and a foreign land (and none of which mention 70 years), as if to suggest that one is instrinsic to the other.

  People can serve from anywhere. People who are serving may or may not be in exile.
• 

  Ethos

  Black Sheep:http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/118291/3/Fact-Jews-Returned-In-538-BC-Kills-Off-Watchtower-Chronology

  and ...... there is no attempt to refute anything in the OP. If you really want to impress us, take up the challenge in the OP and present us with a tabulated form that clearly demonstrates the mistake/s.

  Challenge will now be met. AlanF/Jeffro has made the error of trying to substantiate his own dogmatic assertion that it is a fact that the Jews returned in 538 B.C. by one shaky, decrepit, and not in any way authoritative evidence and then he resorted to CONJECTURED ASSERTIONS regarding when Cyrus issued his decree and when the Jews returned (month by month), when his source in the first place was by no means the final authority on the subject.

  Error #1: "In other words, Josephus has provided the crucial information to decide between 538 and 537 B.C." --Alan F

  If we are to hold Josephus as the authoritative say on the matter then we should examine everything he said in conjunction to the 70 year servitude (since this related to the timing of the release of the Jewish exiles):

  Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, I states: "IN the first year of the reign of Cyrus (1) which was the seventieth from the day that our people were removed out of their own land into Babylon, God commiserated the captivity and calamity of these poor people, according as he had foretold to them by Jeremiah the prophet, before the destruction of the city, that after they had served Nebuchadnezzar and his posterity, and after they had undergone that servitude seventy years, he would restore them again to the land of their fathers, and they should build their temple, and enjoy their ancient prosperity.

  So Josephus indubitably says Jeremiah prophesied that SEVENTY years after the people were removed out of Judah into Babylon, BEFORE the destruction of the city. Jeffro will try to say this should be revised but as it plainly says this is something Jeremiah prophesied and nowhere does Jeremiah prophesy a servitude or a removal out of Babylon '50 years from the reign of Cyrus'.

  But AlanF, Jeffro, AnnoMaly and others will not accept this. In fact, they all maintain that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587/586 BCE. Now make a mental note that Cyrus first regnal year is from Nisan 538 to Nisan 537. (Mar/April) Count 70 years from the destruction of Jerusalem and this will bring you to 517 BCE. Does not work. If they wish to use the revision tactic of 50 years, count 50 years from the destruction of Jerusalem (Tammuz of 587) and this would take you to the summer (Tammuz) of 537, which extends PAST Cyrus' first regnal year and extends into his second. Therefore, the decree would NOT have been given in the first year of Cyrus as the Bible says, but instead was given in his second year, even if we allow for a ridiculous revision.

  Now also notice Ezra 1:1 "And in the first year of Cyrus the king of Persia, that Jehovah’s word from the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, Jehovah roused the spirit of Cyrus."

  Now notice there is no month stated, simply that it was given in the first year. But in AlanF's chart, I've highlighted in red how he conjectured that the decree was given in the FIRST month of Cyrus' FIRST regnal year. He asks for evidence that 537 is the date for the return, but he can provide no Biblical or secular evidence that the decree HAD to be given in the first month. By proceeding from here, he continues to conjecture, but passes it off as 'fact'. If you start with a shaky and frankly contradictory premise (between his statements and Josephus' statements) your conclusion is likely to be shaky and conjecture as well.

  Josephus also states in Antiquities of the Jews, Book X, IX, verse 7 "All Judea and Jerusalem, and the temple, continued to be a desert for seventy years."

  Now I know some will say that this should be revised to 50. Even though Josephus already connected the 70 year exile to the 70 year captivity, I will assume this should say 50. Now counting 50 years from Tammuz of 587 takes us to Tammuz of 537. This means all of Judea and Jerusalem were desolated until at the earliest Tammuz of 537. But AlanF/Jeffro dogmatically proclaim that the Jews returned in Elul 538 B.C. Josephus is either saying the city was completely desolate for 70 years or 50. Which is it? The Jews couldn't have returned in 538, if Josephus' numbers tell us the city was desolated until at LEAST the summer of 537. Here, again, his dependence of Josephus crumbles and causes his conjectures to become even more ridiculous.

  I think it can be conclusively said that this table is incorrect. AlanF/Jeffro have also repeatedly asked for evidence supporting 537.

  "When the first group of exiles arrived back in Jerusalem, circa 537 B.C . they found things were even worse than expected." 1 -- J.R. Hyland's "What the Bible Really Says: Ethnic Purge or Ethnic Cleansing"

  "537 BCE.- Cyrus allowed Shesbazzar, a prince from the tribe of Judah, to bring Babylonian Jews back to Jerusalem. Jews were allowed to return with the Temple vessels that the Babylonians had taken. Construction of the Second Temple began."-- Ancient Worlds

  "The decree of Cyrus would allow the Jews to return home in 538/ 537 , a deliverance that prefigured the greater salvation from sin through Christ." 3 -- New International Version Study Bible

  "In 537 the Jews return from Babylon and rebuild the Second Temple." 4 -- The Key of Knowledge: A Study in the Hebraic Roots of Messianic Faith

  " 537 - The first group of Jews arrived back in Jerusalem (Ezra 2:68) 5 -- Returning, Rebuilding, Repenting by Paul B Coulter

  "But the return of about fifty thousand people (2:64-65) in 538-537 B.C . didn't completely fulfill the promises in Ezekiel." 6 -- The Wiersbe Bible Commentary: Old Testament by Dr. Warren W Wiersbe

  " 537 - About 50,000 Jews return to the land, led by Zerrubabel and Joshua." 7 -- Berean Fellowship: Outline of Ezra 1

  "In 537 B.C. the first Jews returned to Jerusalem from Babylon." 8 -- What the Bible Is All About

  "The phase of the dual centres, Palestine and Mesopotamia, from the first 'Return from Babylon' ( 537 BC ) until about AD 500. 9 --- Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years

  "The actual return must have gotten underway by 537 or 536." 10 - Archaeology and Bible History

  After Cyrus the Great of Persia conquered Babylon,he allowed the exiles to return in 537 B.C.E 3 ---- New World Encyclopedia

  After the Persians conquered Babylonia, Cyrus granted the Jews permission to return to their native land and rebuild the temple in 537 B.C.E. 4 --- Jews and Joes (A Secular Jewish History Website)

  "...and assist in the Jews return, since the return was made in Cyrus' first year (539-537 B.C.E.)." - The Macarthur Bible Commentary

  So, yes, there is solid evidence for 537 even if it not's conclusive, it's still a possible date, and many scholars/Bible experts agree.

  Table of Cyrus' Early Years As King of Babylon, With Important Events

  539___Tishri____Sep/Oct___Cyrus' 0th Year, Month 7__Babylon falls, Cyrus' accession year

  539___Heshvan___Oct/Nov___Cyrus' 0th Year, Month 8

  539___Chislev___Nov/Dec___Cyrus' 0th Year, Month 9

  539/8_Tebeth____Dec/Jan___Cyrus' 0th Year, Month 10

  538___Shebat____Jan/Feb___Cyrus' 0th Year, Month 11

  538___Adar______Feb/Mar___Cyrus' 0th Year, Month 12

  538___Nisan_____Mar/Apr___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 1__Cyrus' 1st year; issues his famous decree (pure conjecture)

  538___Iyyar_____Apr/May___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 2

  538___Sivan_____May/Jun___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 3

  538___Tammuz____Jun/Jul___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 4

  538___Ab________Jul/Aug___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 5

  538___Elul______Aug/Sep___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 6__Jews arrive in Judah (conjecture, not fact)

  538___Tishri____Sep/Oct___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 7___Jews are settled in their cities (conjecture, not fact)

  538___Heshvan___Oct/Nov___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 8

  538___Chislev___Nov/Dec___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 9

  538/7_Tebeth____Dec/Jan___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 10

  537___Shebat____Jan/Feb___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 11

  537___Adar______Feb/Mar___Cyrus' 1st Year, Month 12

  537___Nisan_____Mar/Apr___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 1

  537___Iyyar_____Apr/May___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 2__Temple foundations are laid (conjecture, not fact)

  537___Sivan_____May/Jun___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 3

  537___Tammuz____Jun/Jul___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 4

  537___Ab________Jul/Aug___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 5

  537___Elul______Aug/Sep___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 6

  537___Tishri____Sep/Oct___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 7

  537___Heshvan___Oct/Nov___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 8

  537___Chislev___Nov/Dec___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 9

  537/6_Tebeth____Dec/Jan___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 10

  536___Shebat____Jan/Feb___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 11

  536___Adar______Feb/Mar___Cyrus' 2nd Year, Month 12

  536___Nisan_____Mar/Apr___Cyrus' 3rd Year, Month 1

  536___Iyyar_____Apr/May___Cyrus' 3rd Year, Month 2
• 

  Jeffro

  So, yes, there is solid evidence for 537 even if it not's conclusive, it's still a possible date,

  LOL. It gets less definite in the same sentence.

  Ethos also continues to simply paste some sources that assert 537, without providing any basis.

  So I will provide Ethos-style 'evidence' for 538 (not an exhaustive list).

  • Fire Bible-NIV-Student - Page 580, Donald Stamps, Carey Huffman, J. Wesley Adams – 2009: “In stage one (538 BC), 50000 exiles returned, led by Zerubbabel and Jeshua (cf. Ezra 2). ... Note that the first group of Jewish exiles in 538 BC returned to Jerusalem”
  • Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible - Page 449, 2000: “According to Ezra, the exiled Jews returned to Judah and Jerusalem en masse in response to a decree by Cyrus king of Persia (538; 1:1-4).”
  • The Catholic Encyclopedia: Volume 8, Charles George Herbermann, Edward Aloysius Pace, Condé Bénoist Pallen – 1913: “I. HISTORY OF THE JEWS. — This history may be divided into various periods in accordance with the leading phases which may be distinguished in the existence of the Jewish race since the Return in 538 bc”
  • A History of the Christian Tradition: - Page 22, Thomas C. McGonigle, Thomas D. McGonigle, James F. Quigley – 1988: “The Return from Exile In 538 BCE a new political power, Persia, ...”
  • The Controversial Sholem Asch - Page 269, Ben Siegel – 1976: “Apocalyptic tendencies that led to both Jewish and Christian Messianic movements were apparent as early as Ezekiel, but they did not "flower" until after the Jewish return (538 BC) from Babylon. “
  • Kings of the Jews: the origins of the Jewish nation - Page 152, Norman Gelb - 2010 - 246 pages : “RETURN TO ZION Like their return from Egypt almost eight centuries earlier, the return of the Jews from Babylonia was in waves, beginning in 538 BCE.”
  • Jews and Christians: Graeco-Roman views - Page 3, Molly Whittaker – 1984: “When the Persians took Babylon, some of the exiles were permitted to return (c. 538), although many remained...”
  • The amazing adventures of the Jewish people - Page 37, Max I. Dimont – 1984: “The first Zionade, launched in 538 BCE, had a distinguished leadership — two princes of the house of David, ...”
  • The Creative Era Between the Testaments, Carl Gordon Howie, Carl Gordon Howie – 1965: “Under provisions of the royal decree, Sheshbazzar, who was appointed governor of the Jerusalem area, and his company of fellow Jews left Babylon for Jerusalem during the reign of Cyrus. The immediate purpose of their return in 538 BC ...”
  • Fantastic Victory: Israel's Rendezvous With Destiny - Page 129, W. Cleon Skousen – 2011: “One year later, in 538 BC, Cyrus authorized 50000 Jews to return to the ruins of their beloved Jerusalem for the purpose of rebuilding it. These 50000 “Zionists” required four months to reach their destination and were led by a man who ...”
  • The Last Tango in Baghdad - Page 1, Albert Khabbaza MD, Albert Khabbaza, M.d. – 2010: “The Jews were dispersed mostly to Persia and Babylonia. The opportunity to return arrived in 538 BCE when Cyrus of Persia issued the famous decree permitting the Jews to return to Jerusalem and rebuild their Temple.”
  • The Age of the Maccabees, Annesley William Streane – 1898: “BEFORE entering on our main subject, it is desirable that we should take a brief retrospective glance over that part of the earlier history which lies between the return of the Jews from their captivity in Babylon (538 BC)...”
  • Holman Concise Bible Dictionary - Page 210, Holman Bible Editorial Staff – 2011: “Jehoiachin's grandson, Zerubbabel, led the first exiles back from Babylon in 538 BC (Ezra 2:2; Hag. 1:1).”
  • The Jewish People: A Pictorial History, Israel Program for Scientific Translations, Israel Program for Scientific Translations – 1973: “Permission was given to the Jews to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the Temple. The first return in 538 bce involved 42.360 free men and 7337 slaves; the territory assigned to them was small..”
  • Merriam-Webster's collegiate encyclopedia - Page 857, Merriam-Webster, Inc – 2000: “Cyrus the Great allowed them to return in 538 BC, and the Temple of Jerusalem was rebuilt.”
  • The myth of the Jewish race - Page 97, Raphael Patai, Jennifer Patai – 1989: “We can gain a very rough idea of the extent of Jewish-Babylonian intermarriage in the half-century that elapsed between their arrival as exiles in Babylon and their first return to the land of Judah (538 BC)...”
  • A Guide Through the Old Testament - Page 16, Celia Brewer Marshall, Celia B. Sinclair – 1989: “Jews return to Judea from the Exile beginning in 538”
  • Exile: Old Testament, Jewish, and Christian conceptions - Page 89, James M. Scott – 1997, “including the return in the year 538 under the leadership of Sheshbazzar (Ezra 1 ).”
  • A Concise History of the Jewish People - Page 11, Naomi E. Pasachoff, Robert J. Littman – 2005: “the return to Israel under the Persians in 538 BCE”
• 

  Witness My Fury

  I think you need to reread what you wrote Ethos. The level of proof you willingly accept for your preconceived notions that can be used to fit in with WTS dates is never extended to anything that does not fit the WTS worldview. Your confirmation bias is very obvious.