Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos 529 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Ethos
Whats really hilarious is how its not even funny. Its so hilarious how all Biblical dates involve conjecture. And they say I'm not good at this LOL
EDIT:Well I only have one post left for the next 8 hours. Hopefully the mods can give me more posts because I am sooooo not good at this LOL
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Witness My Fury
You are correct Ethos, we find you hilarious.
I thought 539 was an agreed pivotal date, a given in the bible? Are you saying it's not soild now too?
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Jeffro
Whats really hilarious is how its not even funny. Its so hilarious how all Biblical dates involve conjecture. And they say I'm not good at this LOL
Well that's a 'brilliant' response to my last few posts.
EDIT:Well I only have one post left for the next 8 hours. Hopefully the mods can give me more posts because I am sooooo not good at this LOL
Perhaps you should have done something worthwhile with that one.
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tornapart
According to historical records Josiah was killed in 609BCE. His son Jehoiakim became a vassal king, first to Egypt and then to Babylon, paying a tribute. During that time exiles (including Daniel and other princes and noble were taken captive to Babylon and including the temple being ransacked and it's utensils being taken). (2 Chor 36:1-8) This was long before Jerusalem was destroyed. There were 221/2 years from Josiah's death to Jerusalem being destroyed. (2 Chor 36:2,5,911) This period of time could easily be called a time of servitude under the the rule of Babylon.
Also JJ (Ray Publisher) wrote a very good piece after his research on this subject a couple of years ago and most of his evidence was found in the WT publications and the bible itself to show that 607BCE for the fall of Jerusalem is impossible.
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Finkelstein
Its clear to see upon so much evaluative pieces of evidence and information that the WTS. used 607 to serve its own interests to upon hold 1914.
The destruction of ancient Jerusalem obviously didn't occur in that year (607) by the simple means of subtracting 70 years from 537BCE.
Well then why did the WTS. stringently hold to this date so adamantly for such a long time, when no other Christian based faith presented this date
(1914) of having any profound significance ? The real answer to that question has to realized toward the WTS. commercial aspiration to support their own
published literature proliferation and one might say is becoming quite a problem for the organization helped upon the passing of time and the open
information obtainable on the inter-net.
God's earthly publishing organization is one which is truly devious and corrupt.
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tornapart
Actually, I want to thank Ethos for this thread because it's made me re-check everything and made me even more convinced of the WT's wrong teaching and now I will go away and start reading 'Gentile Times Rediscovered' again.
For lurking JWs who are still not sure here are some good links again...
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-1914.php
http://www.jwstruggle.com/2010/12/when-did-jerusalem-fall/
http://www.jwstudies.com/babylonian_captivity.html
and to show I'm not totally biased and have looked at both sides of the argument, here's an apologist's effort...
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OUTLAW
I will address Outlaw's ridiculous red herring post once again. Apparently he does not know the definition of an ad hominem attack.
"marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made.".....Ethos
and this conversation is far too intellectually above your dismal IQ.....Ethos
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...OUTLAW -
OUTLAW
(OUTLAW where are you? We need an appropriate picture for this one.).....AnnOmally
537 is solid, but we are never given absolute dates in the Bible so therefore it requires Assumption and Conjecture
to pinpoint what exact month and year some things happened. ...Ethos
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... OUTLAW -
Londo111
In regard to when the first wave of returnees came back, I don’t go by Josephus either. I go by Ezra. And Ezra is quite clear that the Jews returned to Jerusalem in the 7 th month as we find in Ezra 3. Of what year? The only mention of year is Ezra 1…the first year of Cyrus that begins in Nissan 538 BC. I find AlanF’s post consistent with my reading of Ezra.
It should be pointed out by reading Zechariah 1, that in the 8 th month of the 2 nd year of Darius, which is around October/November 520 BC, Jerusalem and the cities of Judah were still devastated places. In fact, in Zechariah’s vision, the angel asked Jehovah in verse 12, “ How long will you have no mercy on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, against which you have been angry these seventy years? ”
If we back up 70 years, we arrive at October/November 590 BC, about three months before the final siege of Jerusalem, which began in January 589 BC.
Despite the fact that the Jews had returned to Jerusalem in 538 BC and laid the foundation of the temple in 537 BC, they stopped. The temple was still not completed 18 years later, which is why Zechariah was sent. Now it was time for Jehovah to show mercy, even as verses 16 and 17 say, “ I have returned to Jerusalem with mercy; my house shall be built in it … My cities shall again overflow with prosperity .”
For an agricultural society, dependent on the land, devastation involved not just cities, but the land upon which crops grew, as well as fields for grazing. Besieging armies devastated these and often ruined land for agricultural use, not only by taking crops, but by their mere presence of trampling these, and by deliberately ruining the land. Even if a city is not conquered, being besieged is economically devastating for years to follow.
After Josiah’s death in 609 BC, Judah had been besieged and invaded by both Egypt (who set up their vassal king in Jerusalem) and Babylon (who invaded three times from 605 to 587, setting up two vassal kings). History shows that even before Jerusalem was destroyed, the Babylonians had conquered other cities of Judah and burned them to the ground. They did not get rebuilt during the neo-Babylonian era.
God’s mercy was equated not with just return to Jerusalem, but with the cities being prosperous once again.
...OUTLAW