non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens 546 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  PSacramento

  THanks dude and....Gaaay.....;)
• 

  NewChapter

  That is for Christ, not me. Certainly i am not saying that someone who uses a different approach to come to Christ, than what i do, cannot be a christian.

  And yet you had no problem comparing Christians that looked to the OT to Lot's wife. And you have no problem questioning whether I partook of bread and wine, insinuating that those that don't, aren't Christians. Although, I came from a tradition, looong before JW's, where doing such was not a measure of whether one was a Christian or not. It was not emphasized. It was ritual. There are some Christians that don't think that ritual has anything to do with it at all, but my think you have to be born-again of spirit, and THAT makes one a Christian. The ones I knew didn't get all worked up over the ritual of bread and wine. There are other Christians that feel the need to take the bible as a whole, and considering the OT, you know, like Jesus, but you say they are like Lot's wife.

  And where did the directions to this blood/wine ritual come from? Yeah. The bible. The NT, which makes endless references to the OT. So I suppose the NT is a lot like Lot's wife.

  Sure, I know you are not going to say it to anyone's face, but you are saying it. You back away from what you said, and I would expect that, but you still said it. And I believe you think it. So when I said I believe I WAS a Christian as a JW, as I tried to emulate Christ in my life, your first question was did I partake of the bread and the wine. I assume that would disqualify from being a Christian in your eyes. And yet, in all my years in Christianity, this had been no more than a ritual to me, as I always thought it was where your heart was, as opposed to doing some ritual, that made one a Christian.

  You say you can tell if some people are really Christians? Interesting. The point of all of this is to say you are just like every other Christian, even though you like to pretend you are above all that. You do exactly what many of them do. THEY are real Christians, others are not. THEIR definition is the only valid definition. THEIR interpretation always right. But there is always the 'out'. The grudgingly offered acceptance that they can't read the heart and can't judge an individual, but they still do it. And so do you.

  You say set the bible aside, and approach Jesus your way. You may allow that there might be other ways, but you preach about your way a lot. Churches say 'let us show you the way'. Churches are evil. Why? They do the exact same thing that you do---offer to lead the way. Plenty of these churches allow a wild amount of room for private understanding. United Church of Christ is very liberal that way. Yet they are still offering to lead the way, even if you choose a slightly or even vastly different path, they will keep all travellers cohesive.

  I remember a Christian being interviewed. It was pointed out that people from another religion believed they followed God, exhibited great faith, prayed, sacrificed, all the things she as a Christian did. But she summed it up nicely. She said, "Yes, but they are wrong and we are right."

  That's all this is.
• 

  Satanus

  I saw a travel show about india. There was a tibetan buddhist monk talking. He accepted that other religions also have good stuff and are ok. I know that hindus and buddhists (maybe not all) generally believe that other religions also lead to god. The three abrahamic religions cannot do this, even if they talk all nicey, nicey about not judging. The abrahamics are closed religions. Hindu/buddhist are open religions.

  S

  Ps, universalists may be an ecception.
• 

  tec

  And yet you had no problem comparing Christians that looked to the OT to Lot's wife.

  No, I compared the act of looking back at something that does not bring life, rather than forward to what DOES bring life... as similar to what Lot's wife did.

  And you have no problem questioning whether I partook of bread and wine, insinuating that those that don't, aren't Christians.

  I asked a question. I asked what you thought. It was not an insinuation. Nor is it a matter of not partaking, but of specifically refusing to partake when offered. It is passing Christ by, because of what an organization teaches. So one is listening not to Christ, but to the WTS.

  Although, I came from a tradition, looong before JW's, where doing such was not a measure of whether one was a Christian or not. It was not emphasized. It was ritual. There are some Christians that don't think that ritual has anything to do with it at all, but my think you have to be born-again of spirit, and THAT makes one a Christian. The ones I knew didn't get all worked up over the ritual of bread and wine. There are other Christians that feel the need to take the bible as a whole, and considering the OT, you know, like Jesus, but you say they are like Lot's wife.

  I am not worked up over it at all. It was a question. You ask many of me as well. I do not think it was unfair. I have also thought that it was merely a ritual. But what the WTS does is DENY Christ, because people every year take the bread and wine and pass it on, stating this is not for me.

  So it was a comparison of who a person belonged and listened TO: Christ (unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part of me)... or WTS.

  And where did the directions to this blood/wine ritual come from? Yeah. The bible. The NT, which makes endless references to the OT. So I suppose the NT is a lot like Lot's wife.

  You seem offended by this comparison. But I have explained already that, in a sense, i could see a similar thing in the the act, not the person. Like a metaphor.

  Sure, I know you are not going to say it to anyone's face, but you are saying it.

  Anything I say here, I would say to the face of the person I am speaking to. Unless perhaps body language showed me that I was misunderstanding something from mere words on a screen.

  You back away from what you said, and I would expect that, but you still said it.

  What have I backed away from?

  And I believe you think it. So when I said I believe I WAS a Christian as a JW, as I tried to emulate Christ in my life, your first question was did I partake of the bread and the wine. I assume that would disqualify from being a Christian in your eyes. And yet, in all my years in Christianity, this had been no more than a ritual to me, as I always thought it was where your heart was, as opposed to doing some ritual, that made one a Christian.

  The question pertained to the heart. The question pertained to who you listened TO... an organization, or Christ. No doubt you thought you were listening to Christ, and being as sincere as you knew how to be at the time. But you know that you were not listening to Christ. You were listening to the WTS.

  You should also not assume. I do not speak as to whether or not you belong(ed) to Christ. I asked you a question about what YOU thought.

  You say you can tell if some people are really Christians?

  Where did i say this?

  I said sometimes I can tell if someone is following Christ or not. By their fruit. By their deeds. Someone who steals from and kills another... is not following Him. Not His teachings or His example.

  Interesting.

  I agree. Maybe you should take my posts apart as I do yours, line by line, so you don't mistake some things that I never said, as something you think I said. I specifically said that it is not my place or right or ability to determine who belongs to Christ or not. That is for Him, and Him alone.

  The point of all of this is to say you are just like every other Christian, even though you like to pretend you are above all that.

  Look, you can think that if you must. No problem. But your point is not based on things that I have said.

  You do exactly what many of them do. THEY are real Christians, others are not. THEIR definition is the only valid definition. THEIR interpretation always right. But there is always the 'out'. The grudgingly offered acceptance that they can't read the heart and can't judge an individual, but they still do it. And so do you.

  See above.

  You say set the bible aside, and approach Jesus your way. You may allow that there might be other ways, but you preach about your way a lot.

  Well, NC, I can't speak about something I don't know, can I? If something I say helps someone consider something that helps them with something they are struggling with, then great. Other than that, it is just 'out there' for people to do with it what they wish.

  Churches say 'let us show you the way'. Churches are evil. Why? They do the exact same thing that you do---offer to lead the way. Plenty of these churches allow a wild amount of room for private understanding. United Church of Christ is very liberal that way. Yet they are still offering to lead the way, even if you choose a slightly or even vastly different path, they will keep all travellers cohesive.

  I am not offering to lead any way. Only pointing to the One who does lead: Christ. That is all, that is it, nothing more.

  Nor did I ever say that churches are evil.

  I remember a Christian being interviewed. It was pointed out that people from another religion believed they followed God, exhibited great faith, prayed, sacrificed, all the things she as a Christian did. But she summed it up nicely. She said, "Yes, but they are wrong and we are right."

  I don't do that. I believe what I think about others is this: 'He who is not against you, is for you' Christ decides and determines who is right, who belongs to Him, etc. HE is the leader, the teacher, the life, the truth, the way.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Satanus

  'I don't do that. I believe what I think about others is this: 'He who is not against you, is for you' Christ decides and determines who is right, who belongs to Him, etc. HE is the leader, the teacher, the life, the truth, the way.'

  There is no other way, besides christ? Aaah, gotcha. See? You do do that.

  S
• 

  tec

  There is no other way, besides christ? Aaah, gotcha. See? You do do that.

  No other way to the Father of Christ except through Christ? Yes I do that.

  Christ is the one who decides who enters the Kingdom, whose name is in the book of life. That does not mean everyone has to believe in Him to have their name in that Book. All who belong to Him are changed when He returns, the first resurrection. So those whose names are in that book would be others, as is also shown in his teachings... those who did the things He taught, by nature; those who did good to even the 'least of these' his brothers. Those who fed the poor, visited those in prison, showed mercy and love and forgiveness, etc. These might not have known Him, but He knows them by their deeds. Just as some think they know Him, but he does not know them... by THEIR deeds.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  NewChapter

  So it was a comparison of who a person belonged and listened TO: Christ (unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part of me)... or WTS.

  I don't believe that part of the bible. I'm comparing to Christ being love, and if it is not loving, it is not from Christ. I don't think that Christ would ask me to eat human flesh or drink human blood, even symbolically. I think humans have an aversion to it for a reason. I think that is why when we portray such behavior, it is done by zombies and vampires---monsters. Christ would never ask us to act like monsters.
• 

  Twitch

  I know that hindus and buddhists (maybe not all) generally believe that other religions also lead to god

  From what I know of eastern beliefs, this tends to be true. I find it much more appealing in the sense that no person or belief system is exclusively "true" yet all seem to approach the same place/thing via different paths. Only the method differs.
• 

  tec

  I don't believe that part of the bible. I'm comparing to Christ being love, and if it is not loving, it is not from Christ. I don't think that Christ would ask me to eat human flesh or drink human blood, even symbolically. I think humans have an aversion to it for a reason. I

  think that is why when we portray such behavior, it is done by zombies and vampires---monsters. Christ would never ask us to act like monsters.

  Many of his disciples left because they did not understand that his words were of the spirit, as well. Some remained.

  So are you saying that you turned the bread and wine away because you did not believe that Christ ask anyone to partake? It had nothing to do with the WTS teaching that only those of the annoited were allowed to partake?

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Satanus

  ' Christ is the one who decides who enters the Kingdom,'

  Based on his words in the bible, which you are not really sure about, if he really said them, except that they resonate w you , and so YOU decide that those particular words are really christs. And so, through jesus you judge all people that jesus judges as wrong. It's a cute hand off, saying jesus judges the person, so i don't have to. No other way, except jesus. HE is THE door. Same difference. You and jesus are right, everyone that jesus judges is wrong.

  The person who has someone else kill people for him, or who aids and abets a murderer is still judged a murderer.

  S