non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens 546 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  tec

  Based on his words in the bible, which you are not really sure about, if he really said them, except that they resonate w you , and so YOU decide that those particular words are really christs.

  I don't know where most of the above came from, but those particular words are of love. They show a God of love.

  What is written goes through a couple of tests for me... a) Christ, b) the Spirit (also Christ) but the understanding I am given here and now rather than just fromt the writings, and c) love.

  And so, through jesus you judge all people that jesus judges as wrong.

  You will need to provide some sort of example, because i don't know what you're speaking of here.

  It's a cute hand off, saying jesus judges the person, so i don't have to. No other way, except jesus. HE is THE door. Same difference. You and jesus are right, everyone that jesus judges is wrong.

  Or here. I do not understand you.

  The person who has someone else kill people for him, or who aids and abets a murderer is still judged a murderer.

  Sure. But who is speaking of murdering anyone?

  peace,

  tammy
• 

  Satanus

  Those are all based on what you said. It's all your stated beliefs quoted back at you in slightly different terms. Oh and jesus is the murderer.

  S
• 

  NewChapter

  Many of his disciples left because they did not understand that his words were of the spirit, as well. Some remained.

  That part of the bible is wrong. The entire flesh/blood ritual was completely out of line with all of scripture, and all that we know of Jesus. We have to judge all scripture according to Jesus. Eating human flesh and drinking human blood was never even hinted at. We have a natural aversion to doing such. It is an inherently earthly idea, and has nothing to do with spiritual. Very fleshly, if you will. But why would they write such a thing, since it was so completely out of line with Jesus's personality?

  Well, I think the above explains it well. There was always a power struggle among the disciples. Who is closer to Christ? Who will sit at the left and right hand? Who has the authority to cast out demons? Christ was always trying to correct this, but they kept falling back to the old ways of jostling for prestige.

  Of course the Jews would walk away when cannibalism was introduced. It was appalling to them. But did Jesus really say that to the crowd, or was it later reported to make the core group look more faithful? I think the second option, because the way Jesus handled the new and shocking teaching was not in line with his teacher personality. He just dumped it on them! He would not have done that, especially knowing the prohibition on eating blood. He would have reasoned with them. He would not have asked them to just take his word for it. He may have said, 'you heard it was written that you must not consume blood, but I say to you . . ."

  So looking to Christ, rather than the scriptures, this does not jive. Christ didn't act like that. Lying scribes later added that bit to make themselves look more faithful, and to make it look like they were a part of a convenant that others walked away from. So today, when people decline because they know Christ and know he would not have commanded such a thing, those that go with the lying scribes can compare them to those that walked away in Jesus's day.

  No. That doesn't flush with my understanding of Christ, therefore, the bible is wrong on that.
• 

  tec

  Those are all based on what you said. It's all your stated beliefs quoted back at you in slightly different terms.

  no, these are all what you read INTO my words. Otherwise, please explain further. It should be easy if you understood me; not so easy if it is something you are reading INTO something i state.

  Oh and jesus is the murderer.

  Now that is something you either came to on your own or heard from someone else. You certainly never got that from me.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Satanus

  Mt25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.
  32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
  33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left.
  34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
  35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
  36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.'
  37 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink?
  38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing?
  39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?'
  40 And the king will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.'
  41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
  
  --------

  When he comes into his kingdom, jesus turns into a murderer. Tec, you support him in this. Or, does this part not resonate w you?

  S
• 

  PSacramento

  RE: the eating of the fleash and drinking of the blood.

  Such a think would have been blasphemus for a jew to mention or to ask anyone to do in a LITERAL and CONCRETE manner.

  John mentiones this at a different point in his gospel ( the synoptics leave it to the end with the last supper, John inserts it after the feeding of the multitudes) so we must ask ourselves why does John do that?
• 

  Satanus

  Here is another: luke19:27 But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.'

  So, is jesus a murderer, or not? Do you support his murdering his 'enemies', or not?

  S
• 

  PSacramento

  Jesus had just finished feeding them and they wanted more (GOJ chapter 6), Jesus made the analogy with the divine food from heaven, mana, which the Hebrews ate.

  Words to the People

  26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you ( AH ) seek Me, not because you saw ( AI ) signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not ( AJ ) work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to ( AK ) eternal life, which ( AL ) the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, ( AM ) has set His seal.” 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is ( AN ) the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He ( AO ) has sent.” 30 So they said to Him, “ ( AP ) What then do You do for a ( AQ ) sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31 ( AR ) Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘ ( AS ) He gave them bread out of heaven to eat .’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which ( AT ) comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, always ( AU ) give us this bread.”

  35 Jesus said to them, “ ( AV ) I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me ( AW ) will never thirst. 36 But ( AX ) I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37 ( AY ) All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For ( AZ ) I have come down from heaven, ( BA ) not to do My own will, but ( BB ) the will of Him who ( BC ) sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of ( BD ) all that He has given Me I ( BE ) lose nothing, but ( BF ) raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who ( BG ) beholds the Son and ( BH ) believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will ( BI ) raise him up on the last day.”

  Words to the Jews

  41 ( BJ ) Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that ( BK ) came down out of heaven.” 42 They were saying, “ ( BL ) Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother ( BM ) we know? How does He now say, ‘ ( BN ) I have come down out of heaven’ ?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me ( BO ) draws him; and I will ( BP ) raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written ( BQ ) in the prophets, ‘ ( BR ) And they shall all be ( BS ) taught of God .’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 ( BT ) Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes ( BU ) has eternal life. 48 ( BV ) I am the bread of life. 49 ( BW ) Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which ( BX ) comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and ( BY ) not die. 51 ( BZ ) I am the living bread that ( CA ) came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, ( CB ) he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give ( CC ) for the life of the world is ( CD ) My flesh.”

  52 ( CE ) Then the Jews ( CF ) began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of ( CG ) the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will ( CH ) raise him up on the last day. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood ( CI ) abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the ( CJ ) living Father ( CK ) sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which ( CL ) came down out of heaven; not as ( CM ) the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread ( CN ) will live forever.”
• 

  PSacramento

  and what happend?

  Words to the Disciples

  59 These things He said ( CO ) in the synagogue as He taught ( CP ) in Capernaum.

  60 Therefore many of His ( CQ ) disciples, when they heard this said, “ ( CR ) This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, ( CS ) conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this ( CT ) cause you to stumble? 62 What then if you see ( CU ) the Son of Man ( CV ) ascending to where He was before? 63 ( CW ) It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; ( CX ) the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are ( CY ) some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus ( CZ ) knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and ( DA ) who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have ( DB ) said to you, that no one can come to Me unless ( DC ) it has been granted him from the Father.”

  Peter’s Confession of Faith

  66 As a result of this many of His ( DD ) disciples ( DE ) withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. 67 So Jesus said to ( DF ) the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68 ( DG ) Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have ( DH ) words of eternal life. 69 We have believed and have come to know that You are ( DI ) the Holy One of God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “ ( DJ ) Did I Myself not choose you, ( DK ) the twelve, and yet one of you is ( DL ) a devil?” 71 Now He meant Judas ( DM ) the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, ( DN ) one of ( DO ) the twelve, was going to betray Him.
• 

  PSacramento

  Where is the key point?

  Here, in Peter's words:

  Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have ( DH ) words of eternal life.

  Note that Peter did NOT say your fleash and blood give eternal life, He said You have the WORDS of eternal life.