non believers what if your wrong ? (page 36)

cofty

For the unbeliever, if His works are just, yes I believe so.

So evangelism is pointless and christianity loses its central and crucial doctrine of grace based on faith in Jesus vicarious death and resurrection.

PSacramento

So evangelism is pointless and christianity loses its central and crucial doctrine of grace based on faith in Jesus vicarious death and resurrection.

You can certainly look at it that way.

Except that I for one, would not want to be judged for all the crap I have done, just saying...

But that aside, since I don't believe in believing just to be saved, which doesn't lead to salvation anyways...

The thing is that it is because of God's grace that the believer is NOT judged and that the non-believer is judged on his righteousness, it is because Christ AS reconciled Man with God that the just and un-just BOTH have a chance at salvation.

cofty

Interesting PSacramento. It does make a complete nonsense of the entire NT but I'm the last person to take issue with that.

unstopableravens

cofty yes it was very bloody and horrible what he went through is 50-53 descibes it in a very detalied way. that still does not change the fact it is the only way for forgivness of sins,so wheter you like or love the arragment that what the cost was and he paid it.so we are talking about what christ did not why he had to do it.

PSacramento

Interesting PSacramento. It does make a complete nonsense of the entire NT but I'm the last person to take issue with that.

LOL !, Thanks...I think...:)

Its in the NT though, GOJ Chapter 5:

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and (W) believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and (X) does not come into judgment, but has (Y) passed out of death into life.

25 Truly, truly, I say to you, (Z) an hour is coming and now is, when (AA) the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who (AB) hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He (AC) gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to (AD) execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for (AE) an hour is coming, in which (AF) all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; (AG) those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Knowsnothing

the only way for forgivness of sins

Why?

PSacramento

Why?

Because nothing Man could do could redeem His sins since he was doing it TO redeem his sins, which made the intent of redemption invalid.

It is like forgiving to be forgiven or loving so you can be loved, it isn't the same thing.

Since there was no way for Man to get UP THERE ( To God), what God did was come DOWN HERE to Man.

unstopableravens

knowsnothing if i told you you would have to change your name! why the only thing i can say is because god is a perfect just judge and he requires justice so jesus paying for our sins so we dont have to. as far as why does it have to be paid the way it is im not sure i dont have the understanding of why god does everything he does. so i only go off what i know from the bible.

cofty

that still does not change the fact it is the only way for forgivness of sins

Sin is a concept invented by religion to control people. I have no sin and neither do you.

The so-called gospel is based on self-loathing. I was an evangelical for 9 years after I left the Watchtower and it all begins with convincing the potential convert how disgustingly unworthy they are and how grateful we should feel that god isn't going to torture us forever if we will only believe certain irrational things.

Bible-believing christians suffer from the Stockholm Syndrome.

PSacramento

Interesting PSacramento. It does make a complete nonsense of the entire NT but I'm the last person to take issue with that.

I did a paper on this view for my Theology class, my professor found it intersting to say the least. He mentioned a few other theolgians of the past that had similar views, so I wasn't alone and I certainly made my case in biblical terms ( cite passages and what not) but it is still a bit on the fringe of orthodoxy, to put it nicely.

non believers what if your wrong ?

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