Where did Meow go? I think you guys scared her off with your bickering.
"As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible" - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126
Believe in yourself, not mythology.
<x ><
I've been studying for about a year now...
by Meow921 161 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Elsewhere
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Will Power
You certainly pointed out the flaws regarding the UN fiasco!
Anyone who is on the net and reading stuff put out by apostates is taking a risk of stumbling themselves.
You are including yourself in this "anyone" you describe I hope.Apostate: falling away from what one was taught. Such ones willfully abandoning the Christian congregation thereby become part of the antichrist. The willful rebellion against God.
Why do you equate rebellion against a printing company, the same as a rebellion against God? Why do you think they are the same thing? and if you don't think they are the same, why do you steer people & defend the printing company's tactics & beliefs when you in fact have problems with some of their teachings?
I have written and submitted literally hundreds of pages of research material on various prophecies that diverge from our present teaching.
How does it make you feel that your annointed point of view is not taken more seriously esp. from those that don't even see themselves as spirit directed?Why did you stop response before the end?
Where is your stand on who's coming in rev 22? -
Will Power
Elsewhere:
I don't think this is bickering. I just asked a question about 4 pages ago and am still waiting for YouKnow to answer. He is just showing how all the "dodge" training comes in handy. And I'm just showing why there is so much "dodge" training to begin with!
YK
An honest answer would be great. Or please post where you discussed this already. Thanks. Please don't feel that you must Tow the party line. (or is that what is taking so long, you're trying to find out what the party line is?) -
You Know
WILL POWER;
You certainly pointed out the flaws regarding the UN fiasco!
That's not true. Apostates uncovered the NGO thing and got the Guardian to print it. After the issue was set before the reader I merely, as I said, pointed out what Jehovah's judgments are against those who are his people, for those who may have some interest in that sort of thing.
Why do you equate rebellion against a printing company, the same as a rebellion against God? Why do you think they are the same thing? and if you don't think they are the same, why do you steer people & defend the printing company's tactics & beliefs when you in fact have problems with some of their teachings?
Jehovah's Witnesses recognize that the Watchtower is the tool of the faithful and discreet slave. It is far more than a mere printing company. They have authority over God's household to teach them as they see fit. Anyone who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses who tries to turn others against that authority is an apostate. Paul handed over to Satan several men who defied the authority of the apostles to establish what was the truth.Where is your stand on who's coming in rev 22?
Jesus is coming. So is Jehovah. They both can rightly be called the First and Last, although for different reasons. / You Know -
Will Power
Thankyou for your reply. altho I am a little disappointed.
They are both one & the same coming together at the same time?
Are they both the Alpha & Omega as well? Jehovah tends to claim this as his right alone as the ALmighty, the one true god. Hasn't Jesus already come invisibly? Would that be a 3rd coming?What do you think of the WT's meanings of this passage over the years?
Jehovah's Witnesses recognize that the Watchtower is the tool of the faithful and discreet slave. It is far more than a mere printing company. They have authority over God's household to teach them as they see fit. Anyone who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses who tries to turn others against that authority is an apostate. Paul handed over to Satan several men who defied the authority of the apostles to establish what was the truth.
Do you mean WT authority? What Godly authority would make such a mistake as to who God, Jesus, or and angel is?You did comment on how the WT was wrong in the UN thing. Not right away of course. You defended them until even you yourself had to admit they goofed big time.
FYI, after Sept 11 I looked up NGOs since there was talk on calling on them for help. I didn't know what they were, so I checked it out. I saw the WatchTower Bible & Tract Society listed there. It was there for a couple of weeks. Not being a JW, I had no idea of the significance, but once I read my copy of the Babylon has Fallen book I understood. Apostates didn't plant this or uncover this. It was there for all to see! The law of averages: you keep doing deceitful things behind people's backs you eventually get found out!
Besides, wasn't it Jesus who pointed out the corruption and hypocrisy in what was supposed to be God's temple? They wouldn't expose themselves. God used Jesus to point it out not an apostate. I think God still points to it today and uses people of conscience to do it!
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dungbeetle
>I said though that I don't teach my own views among the brothers. <
that means you are a liar. And your father is Satan, the originator of the lie and the father of it.
So which blood factions are you saying it's okay to take or not take? THIS WEEK
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dungbeetle
How many times do I have to say it...YOUdon'tKNOW AIN'T NO JW.
He hasn't the foggiest idea what JW's teach today. He has just enough info that I suspect he has studied and maybe even written letters to Brooklyn. That's all. A ten-year-old that reads this forum for a month can talk like he does. That's why his posts are so general in content.
I would like to make a comment on The Star's post and on YOUdon'tKNOW regarding the pedophile comment:
Of course YOUdon'tKNOW is lying about aotomatic removel of accused elders..it isn't just the Watchtower literature, it's J. R. Brown himself bragging publicly about the protection and harboring of pedophiles within the organization. I wish someone would put that man out of our misery.
Unfortuantely, the two-witness rule is for pedophiles only.
You CAN be expelled and shunned with two different witnesses to two different acts, such as for smoking. This is in the elders book on ((((KrazyKent)))'s and other sites; and also you can hear it in the elder's school audio recording on Kent's site also.
That's what makes it so bad. The Watchtower lies and says the two-witness rule is across the board. Not so---and many a Witness has been expelled/shunned with one witness or even none.
YouKNOW is lying about the removal of elders and a good case in point in Manuel Belize, a publicized case. Even after CONFESSING, no action was taken against him...I personally heard this spoken BY HIS DEFENSE ATTORNEY during the trial.
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Fire Dragon
YK,
You quoted: 1 John 3:7-8 - "Little children, let no one mislead you...He who carries on sin originates with the Devil...."
Well, what do you think you are doing here? YOU are carrying on sin! You, as a baptized JW, are not to greet, eat with, or carry on conversations with disfellowshipped/disassociated persons...especially Bible/scripturally based discussions. Yet, you continue to remain among us. Don't you know that bad association spoils useful habits? The first part of 1Cor 15:33 says, 'Do not be mislead!' By who? By yourself. You are only fooling yourself if you think that you have Jehovah's blessings here in your 'ministry'. JWs are taught that if you are at a door and involved in a disagreement with the householder that you need to move on. Why? Because you no longer have Jah's spirit, the angels have moved on the the next householder. You may count the time but Jehovah wouldn't.You are also argumentative and self-righteous! You are an example of a PUSHY Witness. Romans 12:18 says,"If possible, as far as it depends upon you, be peaceable with all men." Again, you break Jehovah's law. You are not above that Law or the Bible. You are no better than any of us, nor are you more moral. You say that you are following Paul in becoming all things to all people...that makes you an APOSTATE!
"...if there is a hell, I'll see you there." (NIN - Downward Spiral)
I'll be the one providing the fire. -
bluesapphire
Meow, everyone has to make this serous decision for themselves. We can't make it or UNmake it for you. If you choose to join, then you will have to suffer the consequences like all of us have.
When people like "YouDON'Tknow" come here and lie, then what can I say if you choose to believe that lie.
I have a suggestion, why don't you read the book "Captive Hearts, Captive Minds." Just go and check it out of your local library in the sociology section. It has nothing to do with JWs and is not specifically targetting any one group in particular.
But it would do you some good to be able to recognize "Thought Reform" in life wherever you might encounter it.
After all, how do you know we are not practicing some form of "thought reform"? You yourself said you had an addictive personality.
Just log off of here and do some research in some secular material and then start with a fresh mind.
Hope you do it. But if not, it's your decision.
Either way, we'll be here to talk to.
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bjc2012
Hi Meow921:
... why [do] so many think that the JW's are wrong, and are controlling.
Here's why.August 1, 2001 Watchtower, page 14 paragraph 8. This article entitled, "Make Your Advancement Manifest", was a study article covered by JWs worldwide, paragraph by paragraph. What is stated below is known and accepted by all 6 million JWs earthwide.
I think this quote will answer the question of whether the JWs are a "controlling" cult or not. After reading this, tell me if you want to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Question par. #8:
What does attaining "oneness" in the faith and accurate knowledge require?
Paragraph #8:
"First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in UNITY and FULL HARMONY with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. HE DOES NOT ADVOCATE OR INSIST ON PERSONAL OPINIONS OR HARBOR PRIVATE IDEAS WHEN IT COMES TO BIBLE UNDERSTANDING. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, AND "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE."
Do you understand what these above words mean?
Jehovah's Witnesses DO NOT have "personal opinions" with regards to "bible understanding". They are NOT allowed to have "personal opinions" when it comes to "bible understanding". Did you know that?
No "personal opinions", when it comes to the bible. JWs are not allowed to have them.
Also, the above quote clearly shows the WTS' confidence in the biblical scholarship of their following some 6 million strong, as regards to "bible understanding". In other words, you the individual Jehovah's Witness (and all 6 million supporters), HAVE NONE! You have no "bible understanding" at all. Neither does the 6 million supporters. It is not possible, according to the WTS.
Therefore, you MUST NOT "harbor any private ideas on bible understanding". That's because your "understanding", is not worthy to be heard by anyone associated with the JW organization. You have no "bible understanding" at all, personally. The WTS' viewpoint of your personal "bible understanding".
The expression:
You must not "HARBOR PRIVATE IDEAS"
explicitly shows this goes deep. Deep within a person's conscience and personal being. This shows, he may not even tell ANYONE about this. Because he is "harboring private ideas", to himself! When someone "harbors" something, he is keeping it to himself. It is a very private thought, or idea. He can only "HARBOR" something, within himself. Within his person. Is this not true?
So, you cannot even "harbor" thoughts, personal thoughts that DISAGREE with the WTS' teachings. That's what the above statement is saying. You must not think, nor "harbor" any thoughts against the WTS' teachings! You cannot even hold within yourself, any "private ideas" or "personal opinions" on biblical matters. That's if they are different from "WATCHTOWER UNDERSTANDING". That's apostasy, JW-style!
Can you agree to that?
So then it goes without saying then, you are surely expected to NOT "advocate," or "insist" openly upon any thought "idea" on bible understanding that is "deemed" to be inappropriate or contrary to the teachings of the WTS. Not now, nor at any time in the distant future. Neither must you "insist" upon having a "personal opinion" on bible matters. Nor can you spread your "opinions" on biblical matters. That's any "opinion" that disagrees with the teachings of the WTS. In fact, you should not have even "harbored" the "private idea" ("apostate" idea) within yourself in the first place. You shouldn't even think such thoughts, within yourself. Because you personally have no bible understanding. So, all JWs believe.
So, if that is the case, whats the point in even having a "personal opinion" on biblical matters at all, even of a "personal" nature. You can't share it with anybody, can you? That is, without being censured for having one. You might as well become a "robot", like everyone else in the JW organization. Those that have no "opinion" on any biblical matter at all, except what the WTS tells them to have.
Also you must know this too: When you get baptized as one of JWs, you knowingly give up the "right" to "harbor" or hold any individual thought, viewpoint, attitude, "opinion" or "private idea", that somehow is perceived to conflict with WTS understanding to others that you talk to. Because they will "turn you in" to the elders for being an "apostate" or heaven forbid, for even having "apostate leanings". You can be accused of that too. "Apostasy" JW-style, is any thought, idea or opinion that conflicts or can be construed to differ in any way with WTS interpretation of the scripture.
That's what is expected of you, when you agree to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Simple.
Therefore if you, after reading this, in the future decide to become one of JWs, and get baptized, you do this with your "eyes wide open".
Because if ever there is a "problem" with you in the future having so-called "private ideas" and "personal opinions" on matters of bible understanding, there will be trouble. If you are perceived as having an "opinion" different from the WTS, you will have trouble.
If they even find out that you are "harboring" private ideas on bible matters, TO YOURSELF, "harboring" them within yourself, you are liable to being called an "apostate". That's because the WTS and crony "elders" will say, you have voluntarily agreed to the above "terms" mentioned above. And they will expect you to fulfill your obligation to the JW organization, in "loyalty to the JW Organization" (and not to God). They will tell you that you should not have been found guilty of "HARBORING ANY PRIVATE IDEAS", "harboring" any "private opinions" within yourself, when it comes to "Bible Understanding". And especially should you not "insist" nor "advocate" any of these "private ideas" nor "personal opinions" on biblical matters either. That's because, you have no "understanding" at all on biblical matters, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You've agreed to this.
So, when one becomes one of JWs, you are expected to get rid of any "private ideas of bible understanding", any "personal opinions" that you may have that may conflict with what the WTS teaches on any biblical matter.
Do you now understand?
If not, you could pay a heavy price in the end.
Because if AFTER you get baptized and you decide to violate this above stated "rule" in any way, namely of continuing to possess a "personal opinion" and wickedly "harbor" private ideas about the bible within yourself, and lo and behold somehow those "opinions" or "private ideas" become known to the elders -- then, the elders will have to meet with you and read the above quotation (and similar ones) from the WT publications.
Then, they will expect you to "repent". (Because you are "new" and you just didn't know any better.) However, if you do not recant your "personal opinions" or "private ideas of bible understanding", and renounce them before the elders, (and admit you have no bible understanding of any kind), you will most assuredly be viewed as an "unrepentant" person, and promptly disfellowshipped. And that means shunned by all JWs earthwide as an "apostate".
So ask yourself, "are the JWs controlling?"
bjc