Thoughts on the new AAWA video and other things!!

by iamwhoiam 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

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    “Aren't people either shunned or else they are not being shunned?”

    Simon,

    No.

    Watchtower teaches and enforces a brand of shunning that prohibits normal healthy familial and social communications and shared affections. This is an extreme form of social isolation that’s deadly.

    There are lesser forms of shunning, such as shunning a person from engaging acts of worship under auspice of the religion, such as prohibiting the Eucharist, which as it turns out is eating a meal with Christians. Think about that one.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • Simon
    Simon

    That isn't so much shunning as not being given a privilege. I don't consider them related.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    -

    “That isn't so much shunning as not being given a privilege. I don't consider them related.”

    Simon,

    I don’t necessarily disagree with that as a common assessment. But we’re talking about a supposed theological position; hence theological birthing.

    - Jews shunned some folks by killing them with stones, as a theological notion.

    - Jews shunned other folks by avoiding them socially, as a theological notion.

    I’d rather have been one of the latter than the former.

    Watchtower’s religion is not the only one that teaches a brand of excommunication. There are other religions who practice far tamer and less intrusive forms of the same idea.

    Watchtower could easily reconfigure its shunning doctrine so that it prohibits associating with an individual as part of a religious service, such as “serving emblems to,” “congregational prayer,” “field service,” “student talks” or “demonstrations” etc. but does not prohibit associating with the same individual socially.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Watchtower teaches and enforces a brand of shunning that prohibits normal healthy familial and social communications and shared affections. This is an extreme form of social isolation that’s deadly.

    So, are you suggesting that if you had a family member who was a child molester, you would NOT shun them for family reasons?

  • Found Sheep
    Found Sheep

    I don't have strong feelings either way about AAWA. I just started back to school had an accident on my bike and working full time. I have not had much time. I do believe that when ex-jw's act in any way angry it gives us a bad name. I remember being brain washed that apostates are angry and mean. We are here for eachother not them. Let's make friends we all know we need them.

    I can not imagine being ousted before I was ready. I could care less now. It is a personal choice that should not be forced on.

    I have not read all the pages so may be missing something. I'll catch up this weekend.

    FS

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    I don't have strong feelings either way about AAWA. I just started back to school had an accident on my bike and working full time. I have not had much time. I do believe that when ex-jw's act in any way angry it gives us a bad name. I remember being brain washed that apostates are angry and mean. We are here for eachother not them. Let's make friends we all know we need them.
    I can not imagine being ousted before I was ready. I could care less now. It is a personal choice that should not be forced on.
    I have not read all the pages so may be missing something. I'll catch up this weekend.
    FS

    It is so nice to see you again, Found Sheep.

    Has your hair grown longer by now?

    I have a V-12 Aston Martin and the TSG Cat is fine.

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia
    ÁrbolesdeArabia

    I thought of something at the golf course right now, once upon a time the WASPs could exclude everyone they wanted from their club house. Mormons refused to allow the blacks a dignified position in their Church, refused to allow them into the Priesthood of Melchezidek and even said they were "CURSED Of CAIN or Canaan". The threat of political pressure and a possible challenge to their "tax exempt" status made them have a change of heart and "new light" came to the President of the LDS Church in 1979. Political pressure and money are the only constants that will make this group dump their mindless mob mentality!

    The concept of "Shunning" is awesome when you are one of the most righteous son's of a bitch in the Organization, there's nothing like seeing a lowly sister down on her luck and we pass her by with our heads and nose held high! This ain't the case with the compassionate Witnesses who are confused what the Christian thing to do is, but they have made many "conditional friends" and fear losing them if they don't follow the group dynamics.

    To attack the Watchtower for "Shunning" is to attack a large population of JWs who feel they are part of a Club, Membership or Coitre of the tradition of High Priest Caiphas of old Judaism. It feels so good to shun the lowly brother who has problems with drugs or sexual addiction, instead of help or words of comfort, we run as fast as we can to avoid eye contact.

    Can you imagine Jesus Chirst (Of Nazareth) shunning the harlots, tax-collectors and sinners? John-the-Baptist was surprised when he heard Jesus was eating with the "sinners" and not following the traditions of men "fastings, ceremonially cleaning their hands from evil spirits, praying in public to be heard" and John sent his discipes to ask Jesus "Are you the One or we to expect another?" because Jesus Christ's approach to healing the spirutally tormented and neglected was unlike anyone the Jewish Watchtower Society of the 1st Century had ever seen!

    The Governing Body and the Governing Body of the High Priest and religious leaders would have gotten along well! The sheer volume of rules and "commandments of men" to impose on their sheep or congregants, might even make the Pharisees blush!

  • steve2
    steve2

    Change is possible. The Exclusive Brethren have at last relented and allowed certain "approved" members (i.e., male leaders) to have "worldly" computers (yes this group also sniffly refers to all non-members as being "worldly"- I guess that also includes the "worldly" Witnesses).

    Extrapolating from this encouraging whiff of progress, I would expect the Watchtower to actually ease up on its harsh shunning policies in the 2070s - timed to concide with the 200th anniversary of the legal incorporation of the Watchtower Society when it really won't matter one way or another who talks to you or who doesn't. This AAWA-ordered "change" won't be thanks to either AAWA or the ants in my pantry. But, those of us here still alive then, will realize firsthand that, as time speeds forward, the best of us generally give up the fight and scoff the whole damn cake, ants, AAWA and all.

  • soft+gentle
    soft+gentle

    oubliette the vid is great but perhaps this point below could be mentioned

    True, but the issue here is the institutionalized form of shunning which is coerced on JWs by the WT Leadership. It removes individual conscience and choice by falsely claiming it is a scriptural requirement when it is not and by falsely claiming it is a matter of loyalty to Jehovah when in fact it is only a matter of loyalty to an organization.
  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    -

    “So, are you suggesting that if you had a family member who was a child molester, you would NOT shun them for family reasons?”

    james_woods,

    No.

    Marvin Shilmer

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