Thoughts on the new AAWA video and other things!! (page 10)

Simon

I think the video is aimed at reducing the abuse of Watchtower’s shunning program, and not specifically at Watchtower ending it

I'd be interested to hear how you think a video will reduce the abuse without ending it. Perhaps you meant reduce the impact of the shunning program? I would still be interested in hearing how that would happen if it still went on.

"Hey, my parents won't talk to me ... but it's OK now - I found a YouTube video!"

I think reducing the effect would only be through help and support networks (of all kinds) so perhaps the aim of the video is to help enourage people to offer their help?

Simon

That you think otherwise is telling.

That works both ways, for everything.

Simon

It’s not delusional to think a religion that’s done nothing but change since it’s inception will continue to do so .

Not delusional to think that change won't happen I agree. But maybe delusional to think that the change will be for the better.

Marvin Shilmer

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“Marvin: I am getting a little tired of you lecturing us on how bad everyone else is only to then see you throwing insults out. Please don't contribute to the problem.”

Simon,

I’m unaware of anything I’ve issued as an insult. If something I’ve said is taken as an insult then I beg pardon. It’s not meant that way.

What I’ve asserted as factual, I stand behind it to answer for.

Marvin Shilmer

Simon

Wait, so when you are insulted you are DEFINTELY insulted but when you insult someone else they have TAKEN it as an insult?

"Is it really that difficult for you to comprehend ...? Or, are you just that incapable? ..."

"punks like you ..."

Marvin: Can a punk like you understand or are you incapable of comprehending?

Q: Have I just insulted you?

Marvin Shilmer

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“I hold little hope that the abuse resulting from shunnng can be "reduced" without shunning being ended.”

james_woods,

The mighty Catholic Church at one time had people shunned by killing them. Today the Catholic Church practices a form of shunning whereby certain Church activities are denied but ordinary family, friendship and business relationship are left alone entirely.

I don’t see any reason why puny Watchtower’s shunning program could not be reduced to where the Catholic Churches brand of excommunication is. Such a reduction would essentially end the sort of abuse we’ve all come to know, loathe, and expose for what it is.

Marvin Shilmer

OUTLAW

Marvin..

The video says the "Shunning has to Stop"..

Thats never going to happen..

The AAWA will never change how the WBT$ works..

The AAWA will never change how JW`s treat DF`d JW`s..

JW`s face DFing for not shunning.....JW`s face Shunning for Not Shunning..

AAWA isn`t going to reduce anything in WatchTower World..

AAWA`s Opinion doesn`t matter in WatchTower World..

Pretending it does is rediculous..

AAWA needs constructive criticisim if they are going to move foreward..

Not "yes men" who try to explain AAWA Mistakes away..

It`s not Good PR..

This is a Good Video that still needs Some Editing..

....................... ...OUTLAW

Dagney

I was thinking about the effectiveness of the video as well. I think first off, it unites those doing the work to feel the value of their efforts against an organization that has caused harm. I think it also validates the feelings of those out in the cyber world who have been shunned should they chance onto the video in youtube or wherever...they are not alone.

I agree with Simon, the WT will not change because of what people want...but could if they see themselves shunning in the same fashion as fundamentalist/puritanical "false religions" (Mormons etc) to the extent it cause them embarassment as a corporation. The corporation is not in the business of caring about people; it will make decisions to continue its existence.

But still it is important for many to be "part" of a cause and to feel the cause can make a difference. However, the world cares little about anything JW. I saw another youtube of a UK couple talking about the shunning at her mother's JW funeral. It's just tragic. WE all can relate.

I did post here a podcast of a Mormon raised gal who in wanting to be honest to her parents of her non Mormon life, saw herself sitting in Mormon hell in the bridesmaid dress (she couldnt be in the church for her sister's wedding), while her whole family was dressed in white and in the big white temple in heaven.

Religion stinks.

Marvin Shilmer

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”The ONLY people the WTS cares about enough to change are its customers - current JWs. They are the ones that need to be convinced. Unfortunately, because of the control techniques most are not ready to listen.”

Simon,

Perhaps I misunderstand, but there may be a bad premise at work in what you write above.

Watchtower does not change due to needs of the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Watchtower changes due to its own needs.

Hence:

- We see lots of changes over the years due to threatened and real lawsuits against it's assets.

- We see lots of changes over the years due to teaching that have become hopelessly outdated and embarrassing for it.

If enough pressure is brought to bear Watchtower will change to service its own needs, which are not necessarily parallel to needs of the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Of course, Watchtower cannot completely kill off the community of JWs, but it has demonstrated a willingness to act in ways that caused upwards of 80-percent of its support to up and leave in order to yield a better business model.

In the end Watchtower is a business and that’s how it's run.

Marvin Shilmer

Simon

Watchtower does not change due to needs of the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Watchtower changes due to its own needs.

They are one in the same. The community of Jehovahs Witnesses are it's consumers and so it needs them.

but it has demonstrated a willingness to act in ways that caused upwards of 80-percent of its support to up and leave in order to yield a better business model

When did that happen? Is it in the modern era? I'm not interested in any ancient "when there were 30 of them" type things, that's just small-group dynamics.

In the end Watchtower is a business and that’s how its run.

Exactly. You need to convince them that the cost-benefit analysis makes sense.

Thoughts on the new AAWA video and other things!!

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