Thoughts on the new AAWA video and other things!!

by iamwhoiam 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “Good video! Hopefully the video will go viral and the GB will be calling AAWA to set up a meeting to discuss reforming it's bad policy.”

  Stealth,

  I agree it’s a good video. Hopefully it will gain traction. It's doubtful Watchtower will want a sit-down with AAWA, though. But in mainstream circles that’s an offer that needs to be there and standing.

  I remember when Greenpeace garnered lots of attention to important causes. It fought hard and valiantly for environmental issues, and corporate enterprises did everything they could to smite them. Then, when the corporate world yielded and invited them into their boardrooms to be part of a solution, Greenpeace refused. This was a major blow to what could have been, and it caused fracturing right at the top of Greenpeace, which only further reduced its capability.

  Watchtower is not going away. But it is going to change. The only question is how fast. If meeting with Watchtower’s top leadership leads to faster change and/or reduced abuse then I’m all for it.

  Marvin Shilmer
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  james_woods

  OUTLAW makes a point. A good one.

  What may be good to OUR sentimentality may be essentially worthless in reaching the dedicate regular witness or certainly the WTBTS itself.
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  zed is dead

  Marvin,

  I am flattered that you care so much about my thoughts and answers. I guess my words must have pricked some pricks!

  I wish I could reciprocate, but I got a lot of things done today, and you didn't cross my mind once. I really do not care what you and your narrow mind thinks of me.

  As for your question, and incessant need to prove you are right, I will answer. If the way you respond to child molesters is to just shun them, you are a big wuss blowhard.

  Were you molested as a child? I was, so shut your crusty old piehole. Shunning is passive; I take action when I know about someone being molested. Ask Tylinbrando if just "shunning" the filth that do these acts is enough.

  I really am through with debating an obiously obtuse person such as you. Go love yourself.

  zed
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  wha happened?

  Watchtower is not going away. But it is going to change. The only question is how fast. If meeting with Watchtower's top leadership leads to faster change and/or reduced abuse then I'm all for it.

  That's the delusion people need to get over.

  What may be good to OUR sentimentality may be essentially worthless in reaching the dedicate regular witness or certainly the WTBTS itself.

  Yep. No one will get that point until they stop drinking the Kool Aid
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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “The video ignores 1 simple fact.. DFing and shunning are the WBT$`s biggest Stick.. They`re not going to give that up..”

  Outlaw,

  I don’t think the video ignores what you speak of but, rather, is constructed should that be the case or not.

  Watchtower may keep its shunning program but that does not mean AAWA can’t reduce the abuse inflicted by that program.

  I think the video is aimed at reducing the abuse of Watchtower’s shunning program, and not specifically at Watchtower ending it. If Watchtower ends it, fine. If not, then abuse from it can still be reduced.

  Marvin Shilmer
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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “As for your question, and incessant need to prove you are right, I will answer. If the way you respond to child molesters is to just shun them, you are a big wuss blowhard.”

  zed is dead,

  I appreciate you responding. Unfortunately you again avoided the question asked and instead responded to a strawman.

  At no time have I suggested my response to child molesters would be “just shun them”. That’s your strawman. It does not remotely address the question asked.

  Twice you’ve responded to the question asked and both times dodged it, this time with a strawman. Now what you are glows like a supernova.

  If you change your mind and decide to answer the actual question asked then here it is again:

  - zed is dead, do you think I’m WRONG for refusing to associate socially with individuals I know to be child molesters?

  I won’t count on an answer from you because punks like you don’t want to.

  Marvin Shilmer

  ________________

  PS: For readers who don't understand what this about, see page 1 of this discussion at zed is dead's post number 747.
• 

  james_woods

  Watchtower may keep its shunning program but that does not mean AAWA can’t reduce the abuse inflicted by that program.

  I think the video is aimed at reducing the abuse of Watchtower’s shunning program, and not specifically at Watchtower ending it. If Watchtower ends it, fine. If not, then abuse from it can still be reduced.

  I hold little hope that the abuse resulting from shunnng can be "reduced" without shunning being ended.

  If you will recall, there was an attempt to moderate the effect of shunning back in the late 1970s - the notion was that DFd people could be reached out to, communicated with, and hopefully returned to the witnesses.

  It was rapidly and brutally reversed.

  Today's WTBTS and Governing Body are more hardcore than Nikita Kruschev's KGB - and show NO SIGNS of moderating any time in the future.

  This AAWA video may be of good purpose and good intent, but will not move the witness religion one iota.
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  Simon

  Everyone knows that biblical hell-fire is a fantasy. Are the catholic church going to give that up too?

  Imagining that the GB will voluntarily 'have talks' and drop their core beliefs and weapons is equally fanciful. Demanding talks with leaders says more about your own self-importance IMO.

  Greenpeace 'won' because they convinced the general population (who were the corporations customers) that they were behaving badly and so the corporations had to change because they value their customers. Whether greenpeace had talks with them or not, they weren't there to make friends or become involved with the corporations so refusing talks makes total sense.

  However, where the WTS is very different and will always be different is that the general population doesn't care and will never care becuase they are not affected by the WTS ... they are not the WTS consumers. No one is going to get mass media concern over what the WTS does any more than people really care enough to do things about Amish, Mormons, Scientologists or whoever.

  Why not be realistic?

  The ONLY people the WTS cares about enough to change are its customers - current JWs. They are the ones that need to be convinced. Unfortunately, because of the control techniques most are not ready to listen.

  Videos like this help people realise the truth of where they were once they wake up to it but it's difficult to 'force' someone to watch something when they have clear beliefs that they shouldn't.

  So how to target them? Maybe something less direct ... something where you have to draw your own parallels with your own beliefs. Maybe the shunning video helps non-WTS followers (i.e. followers of other faiths) see how they are controlled. Maybe JWs will more willingly watch something that describes the mormon faith so they are not threatened but angled so that they can see themselves once they are watching?
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  Simon

  Marvin: I am getting a little tired of you lecturing us on how bad everyone else is only to then see you throwing insults out. Please don't contribute to the problem.
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  Marvin Shilmer

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  “That's the delusion people need to get over.”

  wha happened?,

  It’s not delusional to think a religion that’s done nothing but change since it’s inception will continue to do so.

  That you think otherwise is telling.

  Marvin Shilmer