Most of my strong battles and disagreements here have not been against soul-baring, battered people that some seem to suggest a high percentage of forum members are (I have seen little evidence of this bewildered and fragile bunch , rather the opposite, I see most with grim determination and a new self respect won back from the Watchtower, I see few victims here) but I have seen a pattern - those who have asked the loudest for respect (a thinly veiled request not to challenge anything they post rather than recognising that taking the time to make a detailed response is showing respect) are those whose beliefs are the least substantial. I see no atheists asking that people treat them or their views with kid gloves. With proof comes security. With evidence comes surety. With research and sweat comes self respect. Most of the people who post here , from all viewpoints, are magnificent and earn their forum respect. As long as we all abide by the forum rules I would like to champion those brave enough to post and not seek to impose a false morality and turn this into some simple insubstantial back slapping cuddle festival. This forum and its mods keep the place clear of trolls but otherwise this place is the most vibrant and powerful community for ex-JWs (and us outsiders) bar none.
Ripping a persons faith away, a heavy responsibility?
by Seraphim23 207 Replies latest jw friends
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mrsjones5
Well said Q as usual.
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OnTheWayOut
All I will say is:
Your recent thoughts on statiing opinions and facts being like ripping a person’s world view foundation away without regard for where they land or the damage that could be done is very unusual. I want to disagree with you politely and still thank you for offering such a unique point of view, albeit without evidence of it being more than an opinion. While it is true that I cannot prove that you are correct or incorrect, I think it is important that we agree to disagree on this matter.
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return of parakeet
In my first post in this thread it was a call to balance not indifference to ignorance. I trust that clears up the confusion.
I wasn't attacking you, Seraphim. It is a very heavy responsibility to cause someone to question what they've always believed to be true. No one here takes that lightly.
Bringing in the heavy artillery to "rip away" a person's faith is a bad tactic. If the dub is an entrenched believer, nothing will pry him loose. If the dub is on the fence, TTATT bombs may knock him back into the enemy camp.
From ocean metaphors to war metaphors. I'm all over the place today.
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OnTheWayOut
Parakeet, your thoughts are very interesting. They do tend to rip my faith away, so please limit your swings with the club of facts on my head. But thanks for voicing your thoughts, even if they are a bit heavy handed.
If that offends you, remember that the above is just my opinion on this narrow subject, and it doesn't automatically suggest anything about you outside of this thread.I could do this all day. BTW, so that you are not offended, I am joking and mostly agree with you.
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return of parakeet
Qcmbr -- the quiet voice of reason. Kudos.
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Seraphim23
Qcmbr in that case you shouldn’t mind what I have written. However I suspect you don’t keep track of those who leave in a damaged state, or are able to be aware of any damage that is done in the hearts of those who do get hurt. People hear those with the loudest voices but that is not necessarily the definition of vibrant or of being effective.
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return of parakeet
OTWO: " Parakeet, your thoughts are very interesting. They do tend to rip my faith away, so please limit your swings with the club of facts on my head. But thanks for voicing your thoughts, even if they are a bit heavy handed."
I've never been accused of being subtle. Not in my nature. Although I prefer a Louisville slugger to a club.
"If that offends you, remember that the above is just my opinion on this narrow subject, and it doesn't automatically suggest anything about you outside of this thread."
After years on this forum, I've developed a hide like an elephant, despite my delicate-looking parakeet avatar. I've been called lots of things outside this thread.
"I could do this all day. BTW, so that you are not offended, I am joking and mostly agree with you. "
Not offended in the least. Keep them pitches comin'. I swing at every one!
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mrsjones5
I wonder if Simon tracks it though I doubt it something thats possible to track.
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Qcmbr
Seraph.
I don't mind it, I'm just wary of it. This place has quietened down a lot since 'she who must not be named' left. It goes in cycles. Every now and then we get a character who , for whatever reason, see this place as a potting shed to incubate their latest (almost exclusively religious) fantasy or who feel duty bound to fight the watchtower corner. Either they put up a good fight and people begin to see them as cherished furniture or they go mean and dirty and we all have a glorious rumble and someone gets banned. There are people of a sensitive nature who will sometimes post an inopportune comment or post a well hashed fallacy and they get shot down quick but most of the time people genuinely care for each other and you'll frequently see olive leaves chucked around with gender neutral abandon when a thread has gone too far.
If anyone has genuinely got hurt feelings because something got too personal I do feel for them.. and sincerly hope they grow a pair (meant in the bro. group hug grr way) and come back because true acceptance and growth comes from dancing, often badly, on the dance floor not hiding in the toilets.