Cofty a well observed observation between the title and my first post. Actually I wasn’t thinking of it in the terms of an appeal on behalf of people of faith from those without, but on behalf of anyone with a faith in anything including atheism. I view atheism as a faith as well you see, which is my view I don’t expect universal agreement on. However JWs were the primary faith I had in mind as opposed to what I have faith in now, or anyone here in what they have faith in. So it is about personal attacks, but not really attacks in the avert sense but a more subtle form. Primary it applied to JWs faith and secondarily any other faith. This works both ways. My concerns were hypocrisy, coldness and lack of empathy and also reason based on rationality. Such rationality and reason because alienating people doesn’t help reason to have the attention it deserves. One can have all the facts and evidences lined up neatly and it won’t do any good if communicated from the disposition of competition or pride, as the intended listener will stop up their ears. So if and when the scales do fall from their eyes at the hands of these attitudes because the ear blocking stops for whatever reason, the resulting damage can be worse no matter how good the information communicated through them is.
Ripping a persons faith away, a heavy responsibility?
by Seraphim23 207 Replies latest jw friends
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return of parakeet
Seraphim: " One can have all the facts and evidences lined up neatly and it won’t do any good if communicated from the disposition of competition or pride, as the intended listener will stop up their ears. "
Absolutely no disagreement there!
As Talesin noted, anyone can get carried away and respond in anger (also guilty, Talesin!). It's because of the nature of the Internet. We don't have to face those we've dissed. We can just shut down the computer and pretend it never happened. It's like road rage -- people behave in ways they never would if face-to-face with each other.
But Seraphim, what to do when someone attacks you verbally online where hundreds of people can read it? I've never allowed myself to be bullied, not by my mother, not by the WTS, not by anybody. My instinct is to respond in kind if for no other reason than to disabuse the bully of his mistaken notion about my life and my beliefs (or my lack of beliefs).
But it doesn't hurt to be reminded now and then that the people typing their posts are real flesh-and-blood people and deserve common courtesy if nothing else.
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still thinking
So if and when the scales do fall from their eyes at the hands of these attitudes because the ear blocking stops for whatever reason, the resulting damage can be worse no matter how good the information communicated through them is.
People block their own ears for their own reasons. No one else is responsible for their choice to listen to what is being said or not, they are. Often people choose to take offense. They look for it, to avoid facing the issues. They focus on how it is said rather that what is said. That is their own personal agenda and avoidance strategy.
If you want to know about something you will find out. If you don't, you make excuses about HOW people say things. It takes courage to put your beliefs aside and find out the truth of the matter and question YOURSELF honestly. People who have that courage are not damaged as a result. They are empowered. People who do not have that courage just continue to believe whatever they want regardless of what, or how, anyone says it.
Qcmbr... I agree with everything you have said so far on this thread.
OTWO....I think some people do believe this is how we should communicate. At least, thats what they SAY they believe, and how they think others who disagree with them should act. Except when it comes to expressing THEIR ideas they believe to be RIGHT...I often see double standards here. I have experienced some of the most self righteous attitudes on this forum claiming persecution. They hypocrisy is astounding. But as Cofty said. I haven't seen that for a while either.
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Seraphim23
Well at this stage we will have to agree to disagree. Some get what I am saying and some don’t. We will all be dead in 100 years anyway.
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still thinking
This is what happens when people get extreme about taking offense....taking offense serves no purpose other than to try and shut people up.
They believe that taking their faith away is a heavy responsiblity too....deserving of death.
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mrsjones5
Well at this stage we will have to agree to disagree. Some get what I am saying and some don’t. We will all be dead in 100 years anyway.
Well that's a fatalistic way of looking at it but yeah.
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talesin
This is what happens when people get extreme about taking offense....taking offense serves no purpose other than to try and shut people up.
I agree ST.
That being said, and you KNOW I respect your logic,,,, when people call others 'ignorant' and make sarcastic remarks about their beliefs which include NO constructive critique, just verbal abuse, it is destructive, rather than CONstructive reasoning, that is divisive.
oh, hell,,, I feel like I'm on one of those religious threads, where no logic prevails.
uggh
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Fernando
I really loved you well written and considered OP Seraphim23.
Regardless of our current pursuation, the dogmatism of the past is best left there. This is an area I personally continue to seek improvement in.
As a believer, my personal experience has been a gentle invitation, from my heavenly father, to examine the "unabridged gospel" as an alternative to religion and coercion. What I am saying is that God himself respects free will, choice and self-determination. Who are we therefore to prescribe to others?
(Personally I do not equate faith with belief. The former is a gift from God. The latter is man's response to what man sees, hears, reads or experiences.)
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still thinking
I get what your saying...we should be nicer to each other...and I agree...And there are plenty of threads where everyone does that, even people who debate with each other on other threads get together and be nice.
But in debate where ideas are being questioned...nice is just a term for agreeing to disagree. End of conversation.
When people disagree that is life, when people get angry, that is life. We are humans. Stifling feelings is not healthy. Working through them is. And this forum is a great place to safely do that.
We choose whether we want to be offended or not....no one else. If we don't realize that, we are going to struggle with reality. Reality is, the world isn't that nice. There are a million and one things we can be offended about everyday if we choose to be. Just because someone says something derogatory to me doesn't mean I have to own it. It's their opinion. We are all entitled to that.
Some of the threads mentioned here like ones about after life and spirits etc...are interesting. And they are interesting because not everyone agrees with each other. If I wanted to just hear one side of the story I'd go to a spiritualist church where they all agree that it's real and support each others belief. There ARE places you can go if you just want agreement on your beliefs and only want them reinforced. Or...you can ask for it at the beginning of the thread. I'm sure MOST people would respect that. If you said.' I only want people who agree with what I'm saying to respond' thats what you'll get. Boring...but hey. If thats what you want.
