When I was arrested by the FBI over the Draft issue I was put in the back of the officer's car and handed a form to sign, an admission of guilt, I did not sign it. While being processed I was accosted by one FBI officer in the holding cell area and two other FBI agents had to step in to get him off. It is a strange process being in the presence of law enforcement officers.
Boston bomb investigators kill Florida man
by Simon 162 Replies latest members politics
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Simon
You are negating confessions because you ASSUME confessions =no evidence.
No, I'm saying people fallback to relying on confessions when they have no better evidence and there is strong evidence that confessions are unreliable and so relying solely on them can result in miscariages of justice. Claiming as evidence a confession of someone you just killed is well ... it's not strong evidence. Why do they bother doing all that expensive DNA testing when they have a confession? Because everyone knows it's not -hard- evidence that can be fully relied on. Do people with DNA proof of crimes leave that at the office because they have a confession? Hell no, they lead with it!
OK, I'll just proclaim the opposite: When most people confess, it's because they are telling the truth about their crime.
I have no doubt that many confessions are truth about their crimes but that doesn't mean all are and isn't the point I'm making. The evidence that your statement is false is overwhelming and I won't bother to link to it again.
The corollary to that, if we're believing everything a suspect says, is that if someone says they didn't do it then they must be telling the truth too eh? Hope / glad you're not a cop.
Now, we're even. We both made proclamations and the only difference is I'm right again
Well, your statement is easy to disprove. Countless studies have shown it. So you're dead wrong.
I guess you're claiming a 0% 'defect' rate when it comes to confessions then. Actually, some studies estimate that as many as 20% of confessions are false. Do you think that they are still worth relying on? Do you think we do victims a disservice if we're happy to throw some innocent person in jail because it sounds 'good enough' to you and let the real perpetrator walk free?
I don't.
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minimus
OK, let's say 20 percent of confessions are bogus....that means 80 percent are legit. I rest my case.
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Simon
so every 5th case that relies on confession lets the guilty free and wrongly imprisons an innocent ... and you're ok with that? Unbelievable ...
Worse still, you trust a government agency who has just shot someone and claims they were just about to get a confession? i.e. they don't even have the weakest evieence.
But you are happy for your country to go down that path, no process?
O what is that sound which so thrills the ear Down in the valley drumming, drumming? Only the scarlet soldiers, dear, The soldiers coming. O what is that light I see flashing so clear Over the distance brightly, brightly? Only the sun on their weapons, dear, As they step lightly. O what are they doing with all that gear, What are they doing this morning, this morning? Only their usual manoeuvres, dear. Or perhaps a warning. O why have they left the road down there, Why are they suddenly wheeling, wheeling? Perhaps a change in their orders, dear. Why are you kneeling? O haven't they stopped for the doctor's care, Haven't they reined their horses, their horses? Why, they are none of them wounded, dear. None of these forces. O is it the parson they want, with white hair, Is it the parson, is it, is it? No, they are passing his gateway, dear, Without a visit. O it must be the farmer who lives so near. It must be the farmer so cunning, so cunning? They have passed the farmyard already, dear, And now they are running. O where are you going? Stay with me here! Were the vows you swore deceiving, deceiving? No, I promised to love you, dear, But I must be leaving. O it's broken the lock and splintered the door, O it's the gate where they're turning, turning; Their boots are heavy on the floor And their eyes are burning.
-- W H Auden -
*lost*
plenty of Irish were locked up in the wrong in the UK for 'terrorist' charges, beaten confessions and torture.
locked up for years, in the wrong. They were innocent.
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new hope and happiness
Simon and Minimus ...you both seem sincere. I think you would both enjoy the documentaries "the thin blue line" and "14 days in may"
Why do i say this? I say this because they both are well made documentaries which I think would add to your view point
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minimus
I get caught stealing merchandise from Walmart, ok? I'm approached by security and asked if I took something. Of course, I deny it. Then I am asked, do you want to see the video? I know they got me, so I say no and confess. Pretty simple.
This happens from Walmart to Boston police.
Do some EVER coerce a confession? I'm sure they do. They might coerce a confession to find out about a national security matter. Of course, the one being interviewed denies knowing ANYTHING. The interrogators eventually get them to tell much of what they know. (You see these extremists lie, believe it or not)......and I'm happy that we got the info, the "confession", the details. (We get to live another day, and I feel quite good about it)
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new hope and happiness
Minimus why do you deny it? oh yes you got caught stealing.
But is it possible some shoppets could have inadvertantly taken merchandise from walmark ?
Well i shopped at a supermarket once and filled my trolly with food. I also with other thoughts on my mind got to my car before i realized i hadnt paid. So what does the video proof Minimus? Its not so simple.
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minimus
Well, I think your defense would pretty much go nowhere for you.
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5go
Yes, I noticed that. "We need guns to fight the government" ... "hey, you with the guns, the government is shooting people " ... "meh"
Lame hypocrisy at it's finest. Armchair heros with their guns but roll over like sheep if the goverment tells them to.
Yes this is nothing new in the states (see the 60's and OHIO) If the right doesn't like a movement they have no problem seeing it put down harshly (see the 30's and WW1 veterans march on washintgton)