by Suspicious 122 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
good man, the facts are all that is needed. One is enough. 607 is the wrong date. 20yrs wrong. Fact. The facts from 607 should then take you to 1914 if you want to go there. As a MS you should already know. Then, it's all over. Exit? I choose to fade.
Your Facts may ring a different bell.
Good Luck
Hey Suspicious - welcome to the board - I hope that you will find answers to question, good debate and just overall a home in a sense.
There are so many things to find out the truth about that it can be frustrating as to where to start. Simply - choose one thing - read up on it, do your research (from historical books, books outside of the faith) and come to your own conclusions. Remember it's okay not to have all the answers.
Wish you the best.
bro ur in for a eye opening ride. Im 25 myself. PM me if you need anything..
Welcome Suspicious... I'm quite new here too, 3rd gen born in... This has been a real eye opener for me and at times, overwhelming. But at least things are starting to make sense...
Welcome to the board. Keep in mind a few things. This is an international forum so english may often not be someone's first language. It's easy to forget that and ignor someone because they sound uneducated.
We don't have spell check on this forum so some prepare their comments in other programs and copy and paste them in.
Once you have posted your remarks it is always a good idea to read them here. If you see somthing that is wrong and needs to be corrected you have 30 seconds to click on that little pencil icon on the right so you can edit your comment then re submit.
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Personel security is good on the site but remember it is the internet. Be careful about personel details.
Also remember that we are now independent thinkers and we each get to express our opinions and yes....even speculate.
If I may I'd like to get your opinion on a few issues: The Pew religious survey says that while JW's graduate high school they have one of the lowest advanced educational levels of any religion (USA). Is this still the trend or are JW HS grads seeking out some level of advanced learning?
That same survey also claims that JW's have the lowest retention rates among other religions with something like 60% of born-ins no longer identifying themselves as a JW. From your vantage point have a lot of born-ins gone missing?
Will look forward to your point of view.
Gio
Giordano: Once you have posted your remarks it is always a good idea to read them here. If you see somthing that is wrong and needs to be corrected you have 30 seconds to click on that little pencil icon on the right so you can edit your comment then re submit.
Actually, you have 30 MINUTES to make any edits/revisions.
Suspicioius, you wrote:
One thing that got me thinking was someone in service seemed so bitter and told me to research more about something that happened in 75. I didn't argue or say much more. I am fairly young (Under 25) so I don't know all the details when it comes to history.
HISTORY! 1975 was not that long ago! I was 16 in 1975. If it wasn't for my non-JW father (rest his soul), I would have quit High school in my efforts to please all those who cannot be pleased. More, More, MORE! From 1969 to 1978, good grief, it was INSANE!
Did you know there are TWO different "Truth" books? And let me add this: the WBT$ is NOT a religion. It is a printing company. Members are not parishers, they are called publishers. They refuse to call their KH church (since when is the word "church" a bad word), instead just Halls. I puked for days when that sunk in.
Here is an exercise in thinking: Replace the word "WBT$" with the word "Amway" and the GB with DeVose (the owner of Amway). The only difference is that you can make some money selling soap with Amway and that money can be used to help in other areas of your life. Conversely, the only thing you can make with the WBT$ is "time", and the elders collect "time" like gold coins. In reality, your reported "time" is only a reflection of how much time you wasted doing something that does not benefit you or your family.
Hi, I'm not a JW but I am married to one. I have two wishes for you. First of all, that you make up your own mind on things - whether it is the validity of the bible, supernatural biblical events, or WT interpretations. The evil of the WT teachings, I think, is the suppression of independent thought. There's no point of your waking up if you just go and accept someone else's interpretation on things. Your own strength of mind is the best defence against ever being sucked in again.
Secondly, I have a soft spot for families. As exciting as these revelations are, your families and friends have not walked your path. They may panic or even reject you if you speak openly of your transformation. So keep quiet for now, and before approaching a Witness with your beliefs, learn something about using a safe approach that will not trigger their fears. Steve Hassan has great advice, www.freedomofmind.com.
SUSPICIOUS,
I wanted to respond to your question about the motives of the GB. I wanted to respond, because I once said the EXACT same thing. Maybe not on this board, but I did some apologetics for JW's elsewhere.
My point then was always that these guys don't roll around in Rolls Royces, they don't have penthouse suits, and they don't have villas in the south of France. So why vilify the guys? I honestly believe most of the GB are true believers. I think most of them are guys continuing on a path they put themselves on many years ago. But then someone suggested to me something I had never thought of.
You ever been in a hall with that one elder that just runs the show? I mean he just comes in there and pretty much directs the body. I have known a few of them. Guys that tried to tell you what kind of shirt to wear, how loud your tie may be, and go after someone because they had a beer in their hand at a graduation party. That kind of guy is not after wealth or money. What is he after? He is after what he considers respect, but is really a form of power.
Power is more of an influence on men than money. And the GB members have power. It doesn't mean they are twisting their mustaches in a tower thinking how to screw the little guy. In fact, I think many of them are sincere believers. However, when faced with their own questions, reasonable information from their congregation, and the ability to change things for the good.....they hold onto the status quo. The only way to improve the organization is to lessen its grip and power over people. Allow people to have varying opinions on doctrine that may or may not be biblical. TEACH THEM TO USE THEIR CONSCIENCE. But instead, the very clear message, is "you have to listen to us to live"!
I was at the convention this past weekend, and the message is clear. Not listening to those with "divinely inspired authority", is the same as disrespecting God and sealing your doom. You are Korah, you are Diotrophese. This is simply not biblical, when you actually go and read these accounts. And if those are parallel accounts, then how do we know the GB today is the equivalent of moses or the apostles? There are no signs or gifts of the spirit as there were in those days. So how would we know? Well one way (I think), we would know, is if they are consistantly right and ahead of the curve.
But they aren't. They are consistantly wrong, and changing doctrine after doctrine. Blood is a MASSIVE blunder. So where is the proof they should be followed? If there is none, what do you do?
These are questions many of us here have asked. Many that are still going to the occasional meeting, or trying to remain in for family or friends. It can be very hard. Make sure to keep your mouth shut. If the elders hear anything that makes sense even a little bit, they go into full wall building mode and could easily turn you into an enemy, because that is what their own level of faith dictates.
The GB doesn't have to be incencere, to have the very human problem of coveting power, or to be wrong.
