As an atheist it no longer matters but you do need to realize that what a JW believes about this mediator stuff is just a variation on John Calvin's 'Limited Atonement' and Closed Communion.
Since Great Crowd has no mediator
by sosoconfused 86 Replies latest watchtower bible
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AndDontCallMeShirley
ssc: I really think constantly changing doctrine makes them believe they have progressive truth - thus a valid reason to say they have the TRUTH.
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This is yet another argument I've had JWs make to me in order to justify the frequently changing doctrines of the Org.
"truth" must continually change in order to be true. When two "truths" completely contradict each other, astonishingly they are both declared to be "true".
The WT often condemns other religions for never changing their doctrines. This is viewed as a fatal flaw, and proof they are not the true religion. JWs have bought into this tripe hook, line and sinker.
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ssc: an article rom 1979 is seen as being archaic
In JW Land, 1979 equates to somewhere near the last Ice Age. Ancient history!
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DATA-DOG
Sosoconfused,
You are very brave! Did your Mother just go to the DC by chance? It was horrible. The GB is working like never before to subjugate the rank and file. The apostate boogey-man is around every corner! They are really desperate to coerce loyalty from the rank and file. The talks were simply disgusting in many ways.
It was stated over and over that " the truth " is truthful understanding of GOD's word. Truth = Facts that can be verified. There can be zero falsehood. No false fronts, no false stylus ( dishonest misquotes ). The WTBTS is extremely deceptive. There is no lie in truth.
I feel sorry for your Mother. She can't understand the teachings, they are designed that way. She is probably just scared. I will be thinking of you and praying for you.
Peace,
DD
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AndDontCallMeShirley
I just found this quote in my files from Don Cameron:
It's entirely circular thinking. "The Organization must be right because it changes it's teachings." First you postulate the existence of a single organization that God works through. Then, when that organization changes it's teachings you use that as "evidence" of God refining it's mouthpiece over time. This is an ingenious way for a religion to completely transform itself into whatever it wants without future generations being aware. This is why when I grew up in the 1990's I didn't know about the 1975 scandals because they had transformed. Does this mean that the Watchtower of 2030 will look entirely different than the Watchtower of today? Maybe that's how they get off preaching about eternal life on this planet. Not as individuals, but as an organization.
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What's the point of even having a God (whatever name you choose) if he doesn't get his messages communicated in an unambiguous way.
Muddled communication is a fingerprint of fallible humans.
Can't the all knowing divine mind help humans avoid stumbling around in the dark?
The usual way of thinking is that the more false teachings a religion has had the more they prove that it is NOT the true religion. But the Governing Body has figured out a way to interpret the above Scriptures in such a way so that the more false teachings the Society has had the more they give the opportunity to prove that it IS the true religion.
Here is how they do it…
"The Bible speaks of a very vital and important prophecy, that is, the refinement. (Daniel 12:10 and Malachi 3:3) We can be glad that some of the teachings the Society had taught ("down till 1919") are no longer taught now."
"This is evidence that Christ is truly refining his temple as the Bible had prophesied. Whenever it is pointed out that a teaching was incorrect, we can be thankful we’re being refined."
Just as Proverbs 4:18 says nothing about how God "gradually" and "progressively" has revealed the truth to the Watchtower Society, the above
Scriptures say nothing about how Jesus has "cleansed" or "refined" the Society’s teachings that have not been true.
The only possible way the Society’s interpretations of what Solomon, Daniel and Malachi said even have a chance of being correct would be if it really is "God’s organization." But as many of us know, "Captives of a Concept" seems to pretty well eliminate that possibility.
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sosoconfused
@DD She is waiting to go in 2 weeks.
We have a pretty extensive history with this org.
Both her sons(including me) are former Bethelites / Elders / Pioneers / brother was a special Pioneer. This organization is everything to her.
She even asked me "Don't you believe that the slave is who Jehovah is using?????" I wanted to literally choke her.
She is old so I guess there is no reason for her to change now. She has been pioneering for 30+ years, have no real retirement just SS. THey can't travel, they can't do anything.
What is worse she applied to go to the international convention. With all those years of enslavement to this org they still denied her and accepted a bunch of others from the hall. She cried and said, "If it is Jah's will maybe next time. I told her - i'll buy you a ticket and you can just go on your own.... her response, "I am not going to go if not selected and fight against the slave".... I gave up
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DATA-DOG
@ Truthlover: " Isnt it the July 15 WT - last lesson that shows a picture of God's throne as described in Ezekiel - that immediately shows the earthly part of "God's" organization ?"
Ezekiel's Vision...( sigh ...) The question that must be asked is, " Why does the " one true channel ", the only means of salvation on Earth today, deliberately choose to use Ezekiel's vision as an accurate representation of the Christian congregation at this point in time?! If Christ was enthroned in 1914 as the GB asserts, then he is ruling. He is in charge NOW. The Father has stepped aside and given Christ the name that is above every other name. The Father asks that all honor the Son as they honor the Father.
This is much too simple and pure for the GB. Where would they be in the picture if they told the simple truth?
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JeffT
I just scanned the 1979 articles in question. I can upload them to photobucket and post them if anybody know if I can do it without getting Simon in trouble. If this has been replaced by noolite (I don't think it has been) I'd like to see that article.
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rip van winkle
marking
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designs
As self acclaimed christians bash JWs for their views of a mediator the question remains- why do you buy the concept that you even need a mediator.
Judaism and Jews did not buy into the Jesus story because he failed to follow the Torah and from that specific point Jesus failed, Deut. 13-18.
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heathen
If you don't enter the covenent by eating and drinking at the memorial (as they call it) you aren't in it , obviously . You really have to be anointed with holy spirit tho to qualify and as far as I can see , there doesn't appear to be much of that going around . What made me laugh one time is when a GC elder tells me he has as much holy spirit as any LF . ROTFLMAO ... The GC only wash their robes in the blood of the lamb they are not brothers with christ as the LF are spirit adopted brothers who are expected to live and also die as Jesus did . GC never die . The whole thing of being mediator involves preparing the LF for thier heavenly role as kings. IMO