Since Great Crowd has no mediator

by sosoconfused 86 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Resistance is Futile

  The Watchtower claims that the great crowd has no Mediator between them and Jehovah. But in reality, the Governing Body has taken on the role of Mediator for the great crowd. A Mediator is a go-between, an intermediary.

  The Watchtower teaches that to get to Jehovah, you have to go through the organization. No hope exists for those living outside the group. To be a part of the organization you have to obey everything the Governing Body says, regardless of whether you feel that it's actually supported by scripture. Sure, you can respectfully disagree, but you face disfellowshipping and expulsion from the group. If you chose to not obey and follow the imperfect men that make up the Governing Body you risk membership in the only group that can survive Armageddon. Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses say they are loyal to Jehovah, but the cold hard reality is that they must be loyal to imperfect men and their ever-changing interpretations of "truth".

  I'm actually surprised that the Governing Body hasn't put it in print that they are the acting Mediator over the great crowd to demonstrate their authority over the rank and file. Perhaps they realize that removing Jesus as the go-between for 99.9% of Jehovah's Witnesses (the great crowd) won't sit right for many of the flock.
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  Resistance is Futile

  Honestly, does it really matter? I'm atheist now, so it's all rubbish to me.

  I suspect that to Jehovah's Witnesses that mistakenly believe that Jesus is their Mediator, it does matter.

  Never discount the power of certain topics on lurking Jehovah's Witnesses. I can only hope that someday members of my family will gather up the courage to research their religion. And they might stumble on a site like this where they'll learn for the first time that Christ Jesus is not their Mediator. You never know which topic might be the trigger for Jehovah's Witnesses to begin to see the truth about the "truth".
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  Bobcat

  Why would anyone want a personal relationship with Jesus? He is the mediator bringing one to Jehovah God.

  Why have the relationship with the mediator when the purpose is to have the relationship with Jehovah God?

  This is exactly what John 17:3 says, without the NWT field service word change to "taking in knowledge":

  And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. (ESV)

  A footnote in the BECNT-John commentary says:

  [D. A.] Carson (1991: 556) writes, "Knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ entails fellowship, trust, personal relationship, faith." Similarly, [C. K.] Barrett (1978: 504) comments, "Saving knowledge is rooted in knowledge of a historical person; it is therefore objective and at the same time a personal relation." This is in keeping with the Hebrew use of the term "to know," which encompasses even the most intimate human relationship, sexual intercourse. Thus, Gen. 4:1 LXX says that Adam "knew" (egno) his wife, Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to her son.

  [End of quote]

  That "knowing" in John 17:3 encompasses far more than "taking in knowledge" can be seen in that Jesus says "this" (the "knowing") "is" (or "means") everlasting life. "This" has an equivalence with "everlasting life." Simply "taking in knowledge" does not. (Compare John 5:39; 2 Tim 3:7)

  That the NWTs "taking in knowledge" fails to convey what Jesus is saying in John 17:3 can be seen whenever a speaker uses the verse in a KH talk. They will invariably describe John 17:3 as a 'first step' towards everlasting life. Whereas, Jesus said "this means everlasting life."

  "Taking in knowledge" works great in field service for getting Bible Studies. But in the process, it hides the fact that having a relationship with both God AND Christ is necessary for gaining everlasting life.

  Take Care
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  designs

  Resistence Is Futile- The Wt. may bring back the wording of CT Russell on 'The Christ" being the Anointed and Jesus.
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  sosoconfused

  @Bobcat - I fully agree. I was being sarcastic in response to someone else LOL.

  My bad LOL
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  DATA-DOG

  @ Bobcat,

  " That "knowing" in John 17:3 encompasses far more than "taking in knowledge" can be seen in that Jesus says "this" (the "knowing") "is" (or "means") everlasting life. "This" has an equivalence with "everlasting life." Simply "taking in knowledge" does not. (Compare John 5:39; 2 Tim 3:7)"

  Exactly. That's why no one in the 1st century had to answer all the questions in the O.D book to be baptized!!

  Check out this link: http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/john173.htm
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  wolfman85

  Are we not perfect because of sin and washing our robes in the blood of the lamb our sins are blotted out and so the white clothes?

  How the WT explain that the GC has washed their robes in the blood of the lamb out of the GT and still have to earn their perfection gradually until the end of the millennium ? ?
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  prologos

  Rat. 350 you said "the great crowd "IS" through the great Tribulation.

  The Great Crowd in the Revelation 7 story is described only as "COMING OU of",-- that is

  AFTER the Great Tribulation, all tears wiped out,-- like in Rev.21.

  It is wrong to speak of the Great Crowd as EXISTING NOW.

  the only thing we have now is the 12 spiritual tribes of Rev.7

  even WT in their confusion admits that: wt 1995 page 31 question from readers: "--Rev 7:9 is describing this crowd AFTER the tribulation--"

  notice cagey wt writers try to hide the truth by changing Great Tribulation to "tribulation", Great Crowd to "this crowd".
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  Bobcat

  SoSoConfused:

  (I'm just catching up, as you can see. Been very busy lately.)

  I was actually commenting on someone elses post, not yours. But I left the name out to focus on the issue, rather than any person.

  A few times I've looked back on a post of mine and could see it became too personal or bordered on a personal attack. So I'm trying to adjust.

  Take Care
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  prologos

  the great crowd according to wt exclusion doctrine might not have a mediator, not even the willing Jesus, but

  they have a great haberdasher, getting them the right cloths to be allowed into the temple (literal or symbolic, your pick).