Is this speaking of God or is it ...an ad-hominem attack on Christians ?
No, and no!
How do believers defend a god who is going to murder billions and pin it on them?
by tootired2care 327 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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tootired2care
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tec
I fail to see where Caliber has ad hominem attacked Adamah. I'm pretty sure that Adamah has been hostile toward Caliber. The ad hominems are coming from Adamah as well. I'm sure if you read what is being said thoroughly, Tootired, you will see this. Since Adamah has contempt toward any believer who actually speaks of, so as to share, their faith (even if that is to HELP someone who IS seeking), that CONTEMPT is going to HAVE to come out. Because out of the heart, the mouth speaks.
How can you read Cain and Abel and NOT see that the story shows the sin and crime of spilling blood? tec
Bigger question is, how can you read the account of God's interaction with Cain in Genesis account, and conclude that God delivered the same harsh punishment (AKA Lex Talionis, referring to "an eye for an eye" justice) later decreed in Leviticus 24:17? Adamah
That is just an avoidance of the question.
So you have gone from "God did not make it wrong to kill others until after Noah"... to... "God did not require as harsh a punishment for those who killed others until after Noah"
The account of Cain and Abel shows that it is wrong.
Anything else has already been said.
Peace,
tammy
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tootired2care
TEC - an ad-hominum attack is a PERSONAL attack. calling out issues with an idea (Christianity) or calling out behaviors exhibited on this on this thread is not ad-hominum. In the last page Calibur made an ad-hominum attack about Adamah's motives which had nothing to do with the immediate discussion or the topic of the thread.
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tec
This is the most recent example (two birds; one stone here too) that i see on this thread; both ad hominem... and untrue:
You are wearing TEC's blinders now, ignoring the abuse and control of, eg victims of child abuse of JWs, all covered up in the name of serving an omnipotent God?
But that's fine. I don't expect you to be able to see it.
Peace,
tammy
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tootired2care
Regarding the comment you referenced if you actually examine the context he was repaying calibur in kind, and a big difference is Adamah has actually contributed substanitive posts to this thread.
In fact if you go back through all the pages primarily what you see from calibur is a long running ad-hominum attack on Adamah's character/motives, not a word about the topic or any of Adamah's points, pathetic.
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tec
And JUST so we are clear Adamah, rather than changing the actual topic: the following is what YOU said:
wiping billions of inhabitants of the Earth for HIS crime of omission of forgetting to declare bloodshed as a sin BEFORE the Flood, only doing so AFTER the Flood
But CLEARLY God does speak of it as a sin, re: Cain and Abel. He EVEN says the word "SIN is crouching at your door..." So I am not sure how you can think that he forgot to declare bloodshed as a sin before the flood... while also reading the account of Cain and Abel. You haven't answered that yet, so I'm not expecting that you will. But there it is just the same. TooTired, I did go back and look, and I saw that Caliber made a relavent point when he first posted on this thread re: whether we should be blaming God (for the anger or the fear or the guilt or whatever humans feel, as the thread is with regard to that) or if it is our own fault because of our own (false) expectations, based on our own interpretations of scripture or based on what others teach, etc. So that the guilt and fear is not what God has given us, but what man has given us (or ourselves). I could be mistaken, and Caliber can certainly correct me if so, but that is what i understood from his words when he first posted on this thread. That point might have gone on a tangent from there, but Adamah contributed to that as well. I thought Adamah actually misunderstood Caliber's point, turning it into a 'atheists don't believe because their angry at God and want to do their own thing'... but I never read that in what Caliber was saying at all. At least not until someone else took it there. I'm not going to belabor this point, mind you. I am sure that Caliber can speak for himself. But that is what I read from him. Peace to you, tammy
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tootired2care
He EVEN says the word "SIN is crouching at your door..."
TEC i'm sure that you would agree that stating this to one person is hardly DECLARING it as a sin, so that it's a moral standard that everyone needs to live by. Are you suggesting that everyone else was to take Cain's word for it? Sounds like taking the governing body's word if you ask me ...I mean really, how would everyone else even know? It's so like the yhwh to reveal stuff to only one and play favorites. He did it with Cain, Naoh, nation of Israel and the list goes on. Why can't this god do any better and just be straight forward about the things that matter in a way that is clear to everyone?
He can't even take responsibility for himself for the extermination that he promised in future. Instead, he blames it on those not warning others enough. I guess it's probably pretty boring up their in imaginary bible heaven and this all must serve as good entertainment for him.
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tec
TEC i'm sure that you would agree that stating this to one person is hardly DECLARING it as a sin, so that it's moral standard that everyone needs to live by.
The point, TT2C, is that it WAS known. God warned Cain about his anger and jealousy... leading him to sin.
So first: God DOES warn, to warn someone off a harmful path... and not just Cain (he was just the first man to murder another man, so the first to need that warning - not counting Adam and Eve, beign warned about what would cause them harm ), but anyone. Whether we choose to heed that warning or not... well, that is another story. (I mean, even WITH a written law and consequences, man still murders his fellow man. Christ spoke about the root of that)
The second lesson, and the one that Adamah and I are discussing, is that we do have this account from long before the flood, so that straight from the beginning, murder (coming from anger, and a lack of love)... is a sin.
He can't even take responsibility for himself for the extermination that he promised in future instead he has to blame it on those not warning others enough.
Well, this goes right back to the beginning of your thread. He is not blaming anyone for what He is going to do... though He is also NOT exterminating anyone. Man doesn't need any help in that category as it is. He does, however, protect those who belong to Him from those who would do them harm; murder them; etc.
I am off to bed though. Will chat more tomorrow if we're still going.
Peace,
tammy
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tootired2care
The point, TT2C, is that it WAS known.
One person who hears something does not at all mean it's known. The point is that it was NOT an edict or standard to live by that people were generally aware of. His way of doing it falls below even the most rudimentary human standards of lawmaking.
Well, this goes right back to the beginning of your thread. He is not blaming anyone for what He is going to do... though He is also NOT exterminating anyone. Man doesn't need any help in that category as it is. He does, however, protect those who belong to Him from those who would do them harm; murder them; etc.
And yet extermination is exactly what is stated in his book of bible riddles in several places. earlier you argued the need for community responsiblity to warn others, now you say there is no extermination...then why the need for warning and community responsiblity of warning at all!? I think your argument just had a complete logic meltdown.
Furthermore, If what is clearly stated in the bible is not true as you suggested, shouldn't an almighty be able to and have an interest in setting his record straight?
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