by slimboyfat 88 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I have reservations about speculating - it makes us look daft if it doesn't happen - but your last post is spot on.
It makes me laugh when the conspiracy theorists think the oraganisation is part of some great powerful cartel. They are a bunch of blundering buffoons.
Why drop it?
Provides a lot of "hoopla" at very little expense.
EXACTLY!! Why do they do this? Because it works!!
Why does everyone think they are dropping 144k. From the latest WT, page 25 --
One is the hope of reigning with
Christ in heaven, the hope entertained
by a relatively small number of Christ’s
followers, such as the faithful apostles.
(Luke 12:32; 22:19, 20; Rev. 14:1) The
I'll be honest with you, this makes me speculate the aliteral 144k even more so
refering to those reigning in heaven as a small number rather than exactly 144k is not a validation of the accepted teaching. The anointed, even of a symbolic144k, are still a "little flock" compared to the other sheetp. This type of word play fits WTS M.O. exactly.
this actually gets me thinking about this recently resurrected thread by Mary
so much to think about!
Great post, sbf, I was just thinking about this earlier this morning -- that in the old days, big changes were sometimes made proactively (i.e., the eventual bans on Christmas, birthdays, smoking...), but these days, the GB only seems to react.
I think it's interesting to note here (again, if this turns out to be true) that the reason the "two hopes" teaching, specifically the part about the great crowd living on earth, was introduced in 1935 was the increasing number of Witnesses and the delaying of Armageddon putting a strain on the "literal 144,000" interpretation. To now jettison the literalness of the number, after all these decades, would be highly ironic.
The stars of Yuggoth and Alcyone must be in alignment, for I find myself nodding approvingly at SlimBoyFat's analysis above.
When will this God-damned AGM finally be in the past so that speculation can be replaced by mockery?
STOP THE PRESSES! I think SIR82 has it!
"We will have had 4 weeks of studies, building up to the "grand climax" that the "faithful and discreet slave" is 9 guys, not 11,000 guys."
The Bible-based™ arithmetic was there all along!
1+4+4+0+0+0= 9
How much more plain does it have to be?
For any active/waking Witnesses, compare the NWT with your Interlinear, and ask yourself how any honest translator could corrupt a verse so blatantly!
In the New World Translation, at Revelation 5:9,10 it says, "because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."
However, in the Kingdom Interlinear of the Greek Scriptures, it is worded thus - "because you were slaughtered and you bought to the God in the blood of you out of every tribe and of tongue and people and of nation, and you made them to the God of us kingdom and priests, and they are reigning upon the earth."
From the original Greek translation, it can be clearly seen that this Scripture has been 'doctored' to promulgate a spurious teaching. Most noticeably is the fact that the '144,000' will not be in heaven - they are on the earth. Secondly, the Scripture does not say that they are kings! It merely says that they are "reigning". Reigning as what? Princes! (Psam 45:16; Isaiah 32:1)
Nowhere in the Bible is there even a hint of Jesus sharing his kingship with anyone - not even with his apostles. To them, and them alone, he promised the position of judges, as well as sitting on 12 'thrones'. (Greek 'thronos' - a throne seat; a chair of state having a footstool; assigned to judges i.e. tribunal or bench; to elders) The judging would be done from 12thrones, not 144,000!
Returning to the 144,000; not only are they not depicted as being on thrones in a privileged position in heaven, they are standing and singing and playing harps 'before' the throne, the heavenly elders and the 4 symbolic living creatures - not the other way around! Therefore, the 144,000 are not the object of deference by anyone in heaven.
Indeed apognophos, I think they were at their proactive heyday early in Knorr's administration. Just imagine the creative energy involved in producing their own Bible translation, arguing for the insertion of the divine name into the New Testament, setting up Gilead and the Theorcratic Ministry School, having truly international conventions with over quarter of a million in New York, speculating that Armageddon might come in 1975, coming up with the blood doctrine, reintroducing elders, and so on.
Of course some of those innovations were a complete disaster. But at least they demonstrated the existence of productive intellectual engagement at the top of the movement.
Nowadays the GB hardly do anything new or interesting. They finally make a move only when forced into action by 1) lawyers 2) running out of time or 3) diminishing financial resources. Practically every change the GB has made in the last three decades can plausibly be attributed to one or other of those three factors constraining their room for manoeuvre.
P.S. If the apostles were going to be kings and share Christ's kingship, why did 2 of them bother to get their mama to ask Jesus to let them sit at his left & right hand?
Nah, the 144,000 doctrine will not be dropped...it would wake up too many people...ain't gonna happen...the AGM wlil be the revised NWT won't it?
Interesting Searcher. It might be possible that they change the meaning of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation altogether and consider them to be the same as the great crowd as so many ex JWs have pointed out for years. That's not to say they will drop the teaching of the anointed/little flock. It's not likely though.
