If the big change at the AGM meeting is dropping the literal 144,000...

by slimboyfat 88 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  dozy

  The whole tone of the Dec 15th WT hints very strongly at a scrapping of the literal 144K.

  This sentence especially would imply that...

  "Few (or perhaps no one) will partake of the bread, as was the case in most congregations when the bread was passed on this occasion in 2013."

  The strong impression I get is that the WTBTS are changing their view that there are not really any "new anointed" to one that there are two hopes but the bulk of those will have an earthly hope. They have to scrap the literal 144K to allow for this. Ironically it is a move closer to the traditional view in Christendom that "good people go to heaven".

  The seeds were sown by the GB claiming to be the FADS , so relegating the "anointed" to just followers , redefining them as domestics.

  It is a huge shift away from the "living forever on paradise earth" focus & something of a risk , but as SBF mentioned , they don't have any choice. I reckon there will be a big increase in those who are "anointed" , but the WTBTS probably won't bother counting them any longer.

  Perhaps in time all with be allowed to partake. But this would be such a huge change that it makes sense to kick it into touch for a few years.

  The real irony is that one of the reasons people were DFd in the purge in the late 70's was this very belief.
• 

  slimboyfat

  I wonder how many nitpicking JW apologists noticed that I said 36 AD in the opening post rather than 33 AD for the start of the gathering of the anointed.

  It's amazing how good some JWs are at quibbling over details in an exercise of missing the bigger picture.

  The big picture is this:

  The literal 144,000 doctrine is an exegetical and empirical embarrassment for the Watchtower society. Dropping it is well overdue. If that's what they plan to do at the AGM then it only serves to confirm that the GB are bumbling buffoons who have been forced to alter this doctrine in response to events. They are not in the driving seat. They have no valuable insights to offer on any subject. They are simply papering over the cracks of a dogmatic system that was always, by design, time-limited and whose "best days" are well and truly behind it.

  If they don't change the literal 144,000 teaching then they just look sillier each year as the anointed figure goes up.
• 

  konceptual99

  Even if there is a change to the understanding of 144k don't hold your breath about loads of the R&F waking up. They could drop 1914, the literal 144k, the global flood and change the generations yet again all in one WT article yet no one would bat an eye.

  The light just gets brighter.

  Aren't we blessed for being part of such a forward moving organisation.

  lap lap lap...
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  marked
• 

  gingerbread

  Whatever the 'changes' may be talked about at the upcoming AGM, I'm sure any new thoughts or ideas to be revealed will strengthen the authority and power of the WT leadership.

  Perhaps a new version of the NWT bible will be released. If this happens, the wording of scriptures have been modified to fit WT thought. We've been hearing with word 'brazen conduct' (in place of 'loose') in articles and talks for a couple of years. That could be changed in the 'new' version. Of course, there is nothing new about a 'new' release of the NWT. It's been done before - in the 1980's.

  Two things that won't change - building projects and 'the preaching work'.

  I also don't see the GB leadership changing doctrine or policies with an attitude of openess and acceptance. They - and most JW's in power positions - want roles clearly defined - with lots of rules.

  Any changes that effect the JW publisher will be even more confining. See Aug 2013 WT (study edition) 'You Have Been Sanctified' & Dec 2013 WT (study edition) 'Will You Make Sacrifices for the Kingdom?'.

  ginger
• 

  sspo

  Whether they will drop the doctrine don't know but in my opinion it's the dumbest doctrine that they have and come up with.

  Taken from Revelation which is a book of "symbols and signs".

  As i preached for 32 years door to door, that's one doctrine i tried to avoid discussing with people.
• 

  sir82

  the Watchtower exposes its related teachings to closer scrutiny by the rank and file.

  "closer scrutiny"? <derisive snort>

  JWs don't "scrutinize" anything. They "listen, obey and be blessed". No thinking, no scrutiny required.

  JWs, most of them anyway, simply flat-out don't care what the doctrines are. They just don't.

  They enjoy a warped sense of "unity", a superficial feeling of "love' and "brotherhood", and a misguided and wasteful "purpose" to their lives. Doctrine, the actual teachings, are utterly irrelevant.

  There could be a WT article next month extolling Mickey Mouse as the antitype of Cyrus the Persian and 95% of JWs would reply "Wow, that's so de-e-e-e-e-e-ep! I never would have figured that out on my own!", quickly followed by "So will I see you out in service tomorrow?"
• 

  AnnOMaly

  The dropping of the literal 144k figure is looooooong overdue. It's particularly redundant now, since almost all of the 'anointed' class have had their status downgraded. One of the reasons why a literal interpretation of the number was so important was to differentiate an exclusive, elite, teaching (feeding) class from the majority, earth-bound r&f. Now the FDS is officially a collective of only 8 guys in NY running the show, it no longer matters how many 'anointed' are around. And it'll be years before the number of 'anointed' increases to such levels that it would warrant another major doctrinal change like making the 'other sheep' part of the 'new covenant' as well.
• 

  valkyrie

  JWs, most of them anyway, simply flat-out don't care what the doctrines are. They just don't.

  They enjoy a warped sense of "unity", a superficial feeling of "love' and "brotherhood", and a misguided and wasteful "purpose" to their lives. Doctrine, the actual teachings, are utterly irrelevant.

  Organisational loyalty is the highest virtue.
• 

  rmt1

  sir82, your post triggers for me my absolute favorite scriptural passage of all time, from a tome not seen in any KH or branch office, which contains in its few hundred pages a thousand times the wisdom of the entire TWS printed output over more than a century, and which was for me from about 16 yo a stalwart ground truth and basis for making sense of, and surviving, the JW concentration camp, which I myself cannot wash my hands of helping to run.
  
  "…if you were going to raise tough, strong, ferocious men, what environmental conditions would you impose on them?"
  "How could you win the loyalty of such men?"
  "There are proven ways: play on the certain knowledge of their superiority, the mystique of secret covenant, the esprit of shared suffering. It can be done. It has been done on many worlds in many times."

  This passage is blocked off in red ink in my edition.