Just this simple fact of life is proof of God....

by EndofMysteries 95 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

adamah

Watkins said-
The thing I've never understood in these believer vs. non-believer 'discussions' is this: most non-believers were once believers and you had the attitude that you were 'right'. You pushed your 'right' beliefs on others. Now that you're non-believers, you have the attitude that you're even more 'right' and you're pushing your new 'right' beliefs. Why do you insist on on being so over-bearing, why not just leave believers to their belief?
You seem to think a belief in God is just as valid as a belief in evolution. And that's a false equivalency, since belief in God has NO EVIDENCE, whereas a belief in Evo/NS has TONS of evidence from many fields of human inquiry (many fields of biology, geology, palentology, chemistry, etc).
BTW, I could care less what anyone else believes when it comes to determining MY beliefs, since that's an "appeal to popularity" argument, eg take a public opinion poll 4,000 yrs ago, and most people believed the Earth was falt. Now their beliefs didn't exactly make the Earth flat, did it? I prefer to believe things that are VERIFIED TRUTHS.
There is an arrogance in atheism that I can't accept - when I hear it I turn the other way. It's the same arrogance I hear in preachers of many shades, and I turn away.
There is a far-more aggregious arrogance: that of the arrogance of IGNORANCE, those who REFUSE to examine the evidence in the name of "protecting their faith". That's TRUE arrogance.
And YES, you are tone-trolling (look it up on Google, if you don't know what it means).
I asked about the Bible because it seems to creep into some of your counter-arguments, as if atheism is the answer to Bible inconsistencies/fundamentalism. Written thousands of years ago, it's not a science book, nor should we expect it to be. But I find that God and science are compatible, if you keep the Bible (or what people say the Bible says) out of it.
LOL! Way to prove you either don't know science OR God, or likely BOTH.
You just waved your flag which announces you know nothing of either, because whenever the Bible speaks of the natural World (from anatomy/physiology, climatology, physics, etc) it invariably reflects the beliefs of ancient men who knew nothing of how the World operates. The old, "Did you know whenever the Bible speaks of science it is NOT WRONG?" mantra is simply a JW-inspired meme, that is completely and uttering untrue....
eg there's no way to explain away why the Bible uses concepts like the firmament (Hebrew 'raqia'), which other ancient men believed, esp when God speaks about it, coming straight from the horse's mouth!
Adam
Watkins

Lol, there are still people who believe the earth is the center of the universe!
I'm with you on one thing: I could care less what anyone else believes when it comes to determining MY beliefs.
adamah

Watkins said-

Lol, there are still people who believe the earth is the center of the universe!
Generally they're believers, since God made it that way (let Galileo and all the astronomical evidence be damned).
I'm with you on one thing: I could care less what anyone else believes when it comes to determining MY beliefs.
Oh, you're making that clear: believers HAVE to be immune from examining any EVIDENCE which challenges their faith, since that's exactly the kind of protective mechanism and mindset which Paul advised; it likely explains why you JOINED a cult, in the first place. You didn't perform due diligence, and joined based on what you HOPED for vs what you learned via investigation.
If you still harbor that same kind of mindset of trusting your gut, then you haven't learned your lesson from the JWs and might consider joining another cult (this is ripe hunting territory for those looking to build their new cults, BTW). Maybe the second cult will be the charm?
Adam
braincleaned

Shaking my head...

We are still here — creationists argue nothing comes from nothing and build a seemingly logical argument (ignoring what scientists ACTUALLY say) — then, against all logic — they change the goalposts and claim that their logic does not apply to God, who always existed! Duh!...
Not to mention they claim out of their butts that God created everything from NOTHING!
Such dishonesty is starting to tire me out.
I'm sick and tired of arguing against the wind. So here's a pretty good explaination.
The second video adresses some precisions that were overlooked in the first.

http://youtu.be/aD9MtIma5YU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRn-mVPIl60&feature=youtu.be&t=6m42s
braincleaned

I'm tired also of the references to the same scientists that believe in God.
If you are going to make a statement authority, lets go!
Here's a novelty — a statement with references to fact-check the claims:
More members of the "intellectual elite" considered themselves atheists than the national average.

Only 7 percent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God. Whilst only 3.3 percent believed in God in the UK’s Royal Society.

Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQ’s tend not to believe in God."

Source: Aarhus University
Ulster University
Gallup
Please do your homework EndofMysteries
cofty

I mean, really, why would anyone listen to your arguments when you admit you now think you were wrong when you then thought you were right? - Watkins
Don't ever believe anything because somebody else says so. Follow the evidence.
Available facts don't prove there is no god but they do show that traditional versions of theism are impossible.
There was no Adam and Eve, no fall from perfection. Humans did evolve from non-human ancestors. The bible repeatedly contradicts reality about the cosmos because it was written in a pre-scientifc world.
Supernatural answers are not required to explain the origin of life.
If you can contain your beliefs within a framework of reality then good luck to you.
Whenever theists stray over that line on a discussion forum you can expect discussion to ensue.
tec

Are there any threads that are not an opportunity for you to boast about the voices in your head?

I comment on perhaps 5 of the many pages of threads each day. Nor is stating something (that is relevant to whatever has just been stated to ME, or to the thread) boasting. How many threads do you go around stating, 'he/she/it is not relevant'? Probably more threads than I even open.
You were my sister in Christ at one time, and I have no desire to flame you.
If that were true, then you would not do so. So...
Your arrogance is historic.
Again, I will remind you that you are the one who thinks that believers are a step down from you enlightened athiests on the evolutionary ladder.
That, love, IS arrogance.
I don't make ANY statement about ANYONE else. I don't think atheists are lower on the evolutionary ladder; I don't think they're less moral. I don't slam or flame atheists at all.
But here you are all offended because I made a comment on a thread about proof of God, re: origin of life... and you are insulting, flaming, accusing, etc, me.
Learned men are having an intellectual discussion and you bring rosary beads and mantras to the discussion.
You said that already. It isn't any more true this time than it was the first time. And the men on this thread are as layperson as I am.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Re-read your comments to me, and then examine YOURSELF.
I know lots about lots but I'm humble enough to admit there are many more things I know lots of nothing about.
Plenty, PLENTY, of stuff I don't know about also.
Cofty and some others impress me in their knowledge. When they say things I question, rather than entering the discussion in an impulse control challenged manner I do some research to see if I can: a. refute their facts; or b. refute the logic supporting their facts. So far I haven't been able to.
Oddly enough... you have missed that I did not refute ANYTHING that science is discovering. Not one thing. I simply stated that science is the process.
That's it baby. Stay out of these discussions unless you: a. bring facts or can refute someone else's facts; or b. support your facts with logic or refute the logic someone else is using. With facts, empirical data but not your fuzzy feel good mantras. Please. I'm pleading with you. Otherwise you are a troll to me and I won't respond to anything you say. And if I do I will sarcastically and snidely address your rationale but hopefully not you.
Love, you have ZERO authority to tell me what threads to comment upon. This thread is about God and science and the origin of life. I had EVERY right to post as I did. EVERY right. I didn't argue with anyone, because i have no problem with the science. I simply spoke as to God and Him being the source of life. Because there is no conflict with that, and with anything that science discovers.
You have always been free to ignore my comments, DJS... but you have chosen to do the other thing.
It's really that simple. In addition to your historic lack of humility, you also seem to lack impulse control. And you love the attention. (snide remark alert: I will send you the psychotherapy bill in the mail; i take al major credit cards). Why can't you sit at your computer and simply LEARN something rather than making your embarrassing attempts to prove something by saying the same thing over and over and over. Facts and the logic supporting those facts please.
Yes, I am just LOVING this attention, all coming because I made a comment that was even on topic.
Do you lack impulse control, DJS, that you cannot ignore my post if you do not agree with it? I never said a word against the science. Not one word.
There are plenty of biblical purely theological discussions on this board; you don't have to enter where you don't truly have the skill sets to enter. Go argue about your all's interpretation of 1 John 3:2 or whether the slave class truly stood up in 1919. Frankly, those discussions nauseate me. I'd just as soon have a rusty nail driven into my brain with a hammer, and then rinse and repeat, as I would to ever carry on one of those discussioins again. In my perfect world these types of things would never be discussed. But hey, in my perfect world lots of things would change. But I digress.
Look at yourself, DJS, and determine whose words, if you can, are truly arrogant. Please. And once again, you have NO authority to tell a person what threads they may or may not comment upon. There are science and God threads combined into one... as this one IS... and just because the word science is in there, doesn't mean it exclusively belongs to atheists, as theists love science as well.
So you are a troll; I won't respond to you again.
No one asked you to respond to me to begin with. I, however, will not respond if you come back at me on this matter; becasue I am sure that EOM's thread has been derailed enough just because YOU did not like a comment that I made. Peace, tammy
tec

And thank you, Watkins... and also Tornapart.
Peace to you,
tammy
steve2

It took years for the penny to drop for me: If I am a complex being who needed a creator to exist, then who created my creator who is scripturally revealed as infinitely greater and grander than me?
BackseatDevil

Just a side note as a 'non-believer'.
I don't actually follow the "I could care less what anyone else believes when it comes to determining MY beliefs" framed mentality. There are people all over the world who have experienced far greater, grander, horrifying, and traumatic events than I have. I am very interested in the way they handle their own path on this world.
For example, even as a complete ateist, it is historically obvious how the lessons and techniques found among buddhists work in one's mind and body, centering oneself and allowing movement in tandum with the world around us. I don't believe in ghosts or angels, but the intesity that comes with someone who means you harm can evoke and evil energy that are curved through use of natural elements found in our planet. And skepticism marks where some of this may be reality, and some of it may be simple 'power of suggestion'.
Because of that, I personally use other people's beliefs to fine-tune my own... I don't just assume everyone is right or wrong. It is (honestly) important for me to know what other people believe as it either reaffirms my own stance, or helps me alter myself in order to have a stronger structure. That is just me personally, however.

Just this simple fact of life is proof of God....

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