Think about it more Berengaria!
Musings about different types of atheist!
by Seraphim23 304 Replies latest jw friends
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snare&racket
Seraphim, you have verbally masturbated an illogical comparison based on no evidence, no scientific knowledge and no reason my friend,
as entertaining as it is to read your thoughts. They are not based on anything real.
Memories are simply connections between the eye, the ear, the mind and emotions that become hardwired on experience. We are able to reconstruct those inputs once experorncing them, those memories are actual physical connections made on every nex experience. There is nothing mystical about them.
Time is tied to space and so before the formation of the universe and after its dissaperance, time so therefore memory is not even relevant.
Again we are evolved to live, so the idea of non-existence goes against our natural desire. Add to that you have evolved to survive an earthly enviroment, to eat have sex and not die, not ponder the universe. The limitations of our brains ability to even appreciate the universe is considerable. We are seeing everything though the perspective of a brain evolved to understand things useful for survival, not for seeking the inner workings of the universe.
Your logic, your reasoning, your emotion, your intuition is not only of no use it will misguide you in these realsms as the scientific method has proven time and time again.
Great questions though, please keep open minded and asking!
As for your questions about the universe, all things are unintuitive and 'mind boggling' to us that we can't comprehend. We can't imagine an infinite universe or non infinite universe, we can't imagine a none existing before or after, we can't imagine a god that has always been forever in infinity or nothing for infinity, so when you try to consider the universe don't start by dismissing what doesnt feel right, or nice, or logical etc because NONE of it does, all we can do is look at the evidence....
Amazingly, the evidence is more thought provoking, more beautiful, more awe inspiring, more profound than any religious explination I have ever been force fed.... If you really like this stuff, you really should go get the books out on it tommorow, it will blow your mind!
Stephen Hawking got famous for a reason...go get " a brief history of time" and "the grand design"
They are written so that anyone can appreciate them.... I would love to hear your opinion on reading them.
If you are hungry for answers, we pale in comparison to such writers and experts... go read x
Snare xxx
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adamah
Adamah If I go to see a movie without memory I might question the wisdom to go.
No? Not even to see "50 first dates" or "Groundhog Day", both movies that deal with amnesia?
Don't you think people with retrograde amnesia don't get some form of enjoyment out of living in the moment, or would you advise them not to bother, and curl up in a ball and die?
Adam
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latinthunder
Snare (or anyone else), before the Big Bang did time and space exist?
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snare&racket
Adamah....where was momento? dissapointed.....
Seraphim, even if it was no fun, it is irrelevant....
If the universe ended before humans and our ability to experience things and have memory even evolved, what difference would it make to your issue? What difference does it make that we have discovered these things and have evolved?
I always used to refer people in the JW's to think of how easy it is to reduce animals to creatures that shoult be content with the harsh nature of the universe, they lived....they died, they were fortunate to live!
We are no different! Our musings that we don't want to die and not exist do not change reality. I assume you believe cat's do not llive on forever in a purposful universe with cats at it's central purpose? Yet try to drown a cat in a bag, see how much it wants to live! See how much it does not want to die..... JUST BECAUSE OF ITS NATURE, yet its desire to not want to die or it's memory of ctching mice in a field on a sunny day... does not matter a jot to the universe.
Just as the laws of physics were not halted when the asteroid hit and wiped out the dinosaurs and most of life on earth, so the inevitible physics that will see the universe demise can not be halted, our feelings about it are irrelevant.
We survuve because we make our survival central to our lives, it is our main focus..... add to that a myhological belief system in our upbringing that told us the universe etc was made with us in mind, BUT WE ARE NOT THE ENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE, just as a lion is wrong in thinking his territory is all that matters in the universe, our roll in 'life' matters not a jot either. we are now fighting that concept because we hear how harsh and dangerous that universe is.... it is no accident we don't like these ideas, they go against our instinct to want to live, just like any other animal.
I am sure Seraphim that you believ that billions of humans have lived and died on earth, most have come and gone with their lives being insignificant, we don't even know the name of 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of them, what they did, loved, cared about, achieved etc has already become irrelevant on our planet, in out universe. Just like all the long ago extinct animals we find fossilised from millions of years ago. Because it is our turn and we are alive now, we struggle with all of that. We were happy to believe we would be the first generation of humans to never die, to live on... if only we obey 8 men in brooklyn... ouch so obvious now how silly that is hey. But in reality, in 150 years nobody will care we lived......not at all.
So what is wrong with that in the extreme, the whole universe blinked out....... what does it matter? We know why we dislike the idea, but that s irrelevant in preventing it or understanding it.
I think education does more than feed info, it gives perspective, and perspective is a lot in figuring these deep thoughts out....
Just before leaving our solar system, we turned the voyager sattelite around and took a photo of earth, we caught it in a sunbeam of light, the photo is called 'The Pale Blue Dot'.........
Life is precious SERAPHIM, this is why we respect life as much as a believer.... look how fragile and insignificant we are.
Snare x
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snare&racket
Latinthunder
We don't think so is the most honest answer...
We know time is interwoven in space and is variable depending on where you are (and when you are). For example time is altered by gravity, people in space experience time slower than us, in fact even any increment in height slightly alters time, so on top of a mountain time passes slower as it is further away from the centre of the earth etc etc. These are small amounts obviously.
But we have proved it by starting 2 atomic clocks and making comparisons in time etc.
Knowing that space and therefore time came into existence at the big bang, the idea of 'before' the big bang is kind of a nonsensical term.
It is an interesting and complicated topic. Prof Brian Cox does a great documentary on it (about 3 years old).
Snare x
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latinthunder
look how fragile and insignificant we are.
Fragile? We are built to survive. Insignificant? We are on the path to harnessing the power of the stars. Small =/= fragile and insignifiant. Life is precious because it's life, not any other reason.
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latinthunder
We know time is interwoven in space and is variable depending on where you are (and when you are). For example time is altered by gravity, people in space experience time slower than us, in fact even any increment in height slightly alters time, so on top of a mountain time passes slower as it is further away from the centre of the earth etc etc. These are small amounts obviously.
If space and time came into existence AFTER the big bang, then wouldn't that mean that there is no "before" the Big Bang? Since the word implies TIME? Also, how do we know we haven't had this conversation an infinite amount of times?
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Berengaria
Snare (or anyone else), before the Big Bang did time and space exist?
Who cares??? What possible effect does it have on us. We have a reality. There is a history I can experience through books and artifacts. It's incredibly flipping cool. How can I bother to expend an iota of concern over whether a tree falling in the woods makes any sound if no one is around?
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Berengaria
Life is precious because it's life, not any other reason.
If I am taking your meaning correctly, I agree.
