Captain, As I have already stated, in obedience to Christ's instructions, I no longer discuss sacred things with self described atheists. I have spent much very unproductive time doing so in the past. Now, maybe if you described yourself only as an agnostic and told me that your mind was open to the posibility that the God of the Bible created the universe ......
How I recently handled JWs at my door
by Christian guy 310 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Captain Obvious
My mind was open to the idea of a god for a very long time. In fact, when I woke up and realized that JWs don't preach truth, I intentionally put off learning about natural history so I could learn more about the bible and Christianity.
Then inevitably my interests pointed toward real truth, not just truth in regard to the bible. A Christian has to assume the bible=truth, otherwise there is no point. I read many books, followed many threads, watched many debates. There is only one possible conclusion: the case for a deity in the sky is far too unconvincing to warrant committing myself to. And if god is real, and he is the Judeo-Christian God, then he does not deserve worship based on his book.
We humans are our only hope. This life is all we have. I was hoping your "evidence" would be able to start a new thread where we get to debate at length. All we usually get are some arrogant creationists who have nothing to say, and just promote some book or post some pseudoscientist clown on YouTube. You seem well versed in the scriptures and convinced enough to give it a good try. So far, facts and evidence always win.
In any case, welcome to the forum! We welcome all types here. Please feel free to share some more of those golden tricks for reasoning with JWs.
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jaydoubleu
Christian Guy wrote: " Jay, Sounds like you are still under the spell of the JWs. Too bad. "
Uh?!? Really?!? For your info, I'm no longer a Jehovah Witness... I'm not under any spell... and JWs are not the only ones who believe the gospel or good news is not just about Jesus.
http://www.truegospel.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/basics.tour/ID/2/What-Did-Jesus-Preach.htm
http://www.ucg.org/kingdom-god/surprising-sayings-jesus-christ-what-gospel-jesus-christ-taught/
http://www.lakeshorebible.net/articles/research/what-is-the-gospel-of-the-kingdomhttp://thebiblicalworld.blogspot.com/2010/12/jesus-or-paul-whose-gospel-do-we-follow.html
http://rcg.org/books/witrg.html
Your resoning that All these verses tell us that the "good news" preached by the apostles was all about "Jesus Christ." is ok... but it is not great because there are other verses that shows the gospel that Jesus brought was not simply about Himself.
Matthew 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.Matthew 9:35
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.Mark 1:14-15
Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."Luke 4:43
[Jesus] said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent."Luke 8:1
Now it came to pass, afterward, that [Jesus] went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings [gospel] of the kingdom of God.Luke 16:16-17
The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.Don't get me wrong, you definitely caught those two "brothers" empty handed, and I love how they admitted they are preaching a "different" good news. That was clever!
You said: One of the JWs protested, saying that the "Good News" Christians are supposed to be sharing with people is about "God's kingdom."
Well, isn't it? (see above verses) If it is, the JW was not incorrect. The gospel is about the kingdom (with him as its king and all his followers as its subjects). Right?
That is why I think this strategy may not work with some people.
I do agree, however, that JWs "good news" directly contradicts the "one hope" teaching of the apostles. They also have diminished the goodness or the deity of Christ and do NOT practice the plain and open teachings of our Lord Jesus. JWs hadly talk about Christ except in Memorials and when the Governing Body needs to remind the "flock" about their appointment by him. -
Christian guy
I don't see anything in any of the verses that you just cited that conflict with what I have here said. The Good News of the kingdom is now and always has been primarily all about Jesus Christ.
All of the verses that you just cited tell us that Jesus preached the Good news of the kingdom. Well, what did Jesus preach? He primarily preached about himself. Christians recognize Jesus as "the great I am" for this very reason.
A few examples:
John 6:51:" I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever;"
John 8:23: And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I AM from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world."
John 8:12: Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I AM the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
John 10:9: "I AM the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."
John 10:11: "I AM the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
John 10:36: "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
John 11:25: Jesus said to her, "I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 19:2: Therefore the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, "Do not write, 'The King of the Jews,' but, 'He said, " I am the King of the Jews ."'"
John 8:24 "If you do not believe that I am , you will die in your sins."
John 10:35,36: "The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me .... I am the Son of God."
"If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors me, of whom you say that He is your God." John 8:54
"And the Father himself, who sent me, has borne witness of me." (John 5:37) "You search the Scriptures. In them you think you have eternal life but they testify of me ." (vs.39)
"If you believed Moses you would believe Me; for he wrote about me ." (vs 46)
Since the kingdom of God is a kingdom that is made up of both its King and his subjects, sometimes when Jesus preached about his kingdom he also talked about the subjects of his kingdom.
In John 15:5 for instance he spoke not just about himself but also about his followers. " I am the vine; you are the branches."
The kindom of God is God's people being ruled by God's Son. The Good News of that kingdom, has always been primarily about the King of that kingdom and all he has done for that kingdom's subjects, whether that Good News was being preached by the King of the kingdom himself or by that kingdom's subjects.
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Mr Fool
Christioan guy, my understanding is that there a very few agnostic people here, very few. I have promised before not to talk about the benefit of being"open minded", so........atheists and religious people believe what they believe, and that´s it. I know because I have been there.
"A convinced mind is open for its own conviction - an open mind is open for the truth"
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Vanderhoven7
The kingdom of heaven in the Lord's field parables (Mark 4; Matthew 13) invariably refers to the church, (the treasure in the field, the good seed) but the man in the field, the sower, the merchant, the man walking in the field is the builder of the church Himself.
Matthew 13:37-38 King James Version (KJV)
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
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Fernando
Personally reading Greg Gilbert's definition of "the kingdom" in his 2010 book "What is the gospel" was a great help in understanding how the "good news about the Christ" related to the "good news about the kingdom" (Acts 8:12, the only scripture in the Bible to mention both) after decades of Watchtower obfuscation and misdirection:
"The kingdom is God's [eternal, victorious and] redemptive rule, reign and authority over those redeemed by Christ".
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Diest
I dont think any God would keep that system in place. Then again I am not bowled over by Jesus who said little new compared to the Greek thinkers and Indian thinkers who proceeded him.
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Zoos
marked
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ThomasCovenant
Captain Obvious said
''There is only one possible conclusion: the case for a deity in the sky is far too unconvincing to warrant committing myself to. And if god is real, and he is the Judeo-Christian God, then he does not deserve worship based on his book.''
And the people who do worship that 'god' do not deserve my respect.