by OnTheWayOut 171 Replies latest members adult
Mr. Fool, things are rarely simply dismissed. They examine. They cause controlled tests to recreate. I get that you have not personally looked into them.
Well, God sat out on a typhoon in the Philippines. Children were swept out of their parent's arms. Some here would say that's the parent's fault for not moving away from the Philippines. 10 thousand, maybe more killed. Damn those humans for not making sure they live away from nature.
I saw that last night on the weather channel. The satellite views of that typhoon are huge.
Some would say that such things as typhoons are part of this world. That God is the one who can bring those children and their parents BACK, in His Kingdom (which is not part of this world). No one says damn those humans, for anything. The typhoon is on its way to Vietnam, and hopefully thier evacuations run smooth and fast.
Peace,
tammy
Mr Fool said-
Adamah - If the possible existing God is omniscient? Hmm, how shall I know that? Sorry, I have no idea.
Well, you didn't just make up with this idea of a God character existing on your own now, did you?
So it's a bit of a mystery, then? Can you retrace your steps, thinking back to that moment when you first heard about this alleged God character?
Adamah - I don´t remember when heard about the name God for the first time. What I do remember when I was maybe 3-4 yers old are thoughts about death, if there is something after death or not.
I can´t remember when I first thought about "Who or what created universe?" But of cause you have right that someone must have made an influence with putting in "God" into my thoughts. No doubt.
TEC: Some would say that such things as typhoons are part of this world. That God is the one who can bring those children and their parents BACK, in His Kingdom (which is not part of this world). No one says damn those humans, for anything. The typhoon is on its way to Vietnam, and hopefully thier evacuations run smooth and fast.
TEC on an earlier page of this thread: This universe is a shifting, moving, living universe. So there are going to be such things as earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, etc. (and man himself chooses for himself and his children to build cities and even live in these areas) That is part of this world (Christ SAID such things would happen... he did not say that such things would NOT happen), and this world is NOT His Kingdom. His Kingdom is not part of this world, and He has not yet returned to establish it. The same with disease and death, and many birth defects are a result of things that man has put into his body or into the air or again, from where he lives (which is not always the fault of the man living there... he might have been sent to work in a place that other men have built, but who have built carelessly). Part of this world, part of having this flesh.
So maybe consider placing blame on those who create the situations requiring a man place himself and his children at risk. Such things will not stop until the men who perpetuate them stop. (or are stopped, or... as is the case with the Kingdom of God... are not permitted to bring such harm and lack of love for fellow man INTO the kingdom)
It sounds like you say words to the effect of "Damn those humans" but leave weasle words in to say "No, I didn't."
So I guess it could read like this: "Damn those other men that have built carelessly and procreated to create a situation requiring men, women, and children to live in a place like the Philippines, causing the men, women, and children to die when a huge storm comes, all while God says "It wasn't me. It was those other men that didn't hear my voice that built, procreated there."
I won't even bother debating the [Kingdom Come] part of your answer except to say, "Been there, believed that, got a nice tie and literature bag to show for it, moved on to reality.
A huge part of the thought in this thread is that if God were there and stands by while this stuff happens, then abandon Him.
But of cause you have right that someone must have made an influence with putting in "God" into my thoughts. No doubt.
Including God (or Christ), Himself.
God was not taught by man to the first man (or men) who knew (or believed in) God. They knew... or rememberd what they knew as a child, or perhaps even before they were born, on the testimony of others.
I cannot trace back to where I first began believing in God either... He was always there.
Peace,
tammy
I would not say DAMN anyone, OTWO. Not even those responsible for deaths. That does not mean that you cannot place responsibility where responsibility lies, if it lies in the hands of men. That does not mean that you are damning them. At the same time, you will note that in my original response, I also said that these things are part of a shifting, moving universe. They are going to happen, and if man is there when they do happen, then man is not likely in this world, to come out on top.
You can dismiss the Kingdom part of the argument if you want...the lack of death in the kingdom as well... but it IS part of the argument.
Peace,
tammy
Oh, I see the problem. You take "Damn...[them]" to mean the literal cutting off from God or assigning to Hell or whatever it is that it has it's roots in.
Fine. I stand corrected. An interpretation of your loving response on the Philippines would read more like:
"BLAME those other men that have built carelessly and procreated to create a situation requiring men, women, and children to live in a place like the Philippines, causing the men, women, and children to die when a huge storm comes, all while God says "It wasn't me. It was those other men that didn't hear my voice that built, procreated there. SO DON'T BLAME GOD FOR STANDING BY DOING NOTHING."
When perfectly innocent children are involved and a storm tears them out of their parents arms to drown or bashes their heads against debris and they can never grow to learn about God or science or whatever on their own, and their parents must go on without them, then the price is too high to wait for the [Kingdom Come]. I know it's part of the argument. I have not read anything that changes my mind at all, so I still just move on from those that act like it's a given that it happens. Even if it were true, the price is too high.
Oh, I see the problem. You take "Damn...[them]" to mean the literal cutting off from God or assigning to Hell or whatever it is that it has it's roots in.
Yes, thank you for understanding. Damn = condemn = judge.
Fine. I stand corrected. An interpretation of your loving response on the Philippines would read more like:
There is a problem with interpreting someone's words... over simply quoting someone's words. You change what is said to reflect your spin. (It is how we get so many different views of God, for instance)
Plus, you are missing this part:
At the same time, you will note that in my original response, I also said that these things are part of a shifting, moving universe. They are going to happen, and if man is there when they do happen, then man is not likely in this world, to come out on top.
You are also assuming that the people themselves would be blaming God, rather than understanding that such things come with this world. I am not sure if you realize that those like you are using their tragedy to promote your anti-God position. I do not think you are doing it on purpose.
Even when they, themselves do not blame God... but instead find hope and comfort IN God. Regardless of whether their loss has come at the hands of nature, accidents, or men.
Peace to you,
tammy
I will add that I do totally understand that it is the question of suffering that causes you to doubt or deny the existence of God; and tragedies like this bring that to mind for you. I don't think you would callously use anyone's tragedy to promote an agenda, certainly not on purpose.
Peace,
tammy
